[tlhIngan Hol] can lo'laH take -laH ?

[SuStel]

On 7/29/2020 7:50 PM, De'vID wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 at 19:36, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name 
> <mailto:sustel at trimboli.name>> wrote:
>
>     And when has it been proven that you can't use *-laH* on an
>     adjectivally acting verb? I don't think you can, but I don't think
>     it's ever been proven to be so.
>
>
> Surely, this is forbidden by this sentence in TKD 4.4: "If a Type 5 
> noun suffix is used (section 3.3.5), it follows the verb, which, when 
> used to modify the noun in this way, can have no other suffix except 
> the rover {-qu'} /emphatic/. The Type 5 noun suffix follows {-qu'}."
>
> We now know that the exception to the rule should really have been 
> something like "except any rover other than {Qo'}", because we've seen 
> {-be'} ({wa'maH yIHmey lI'be'} from PK) and {-Ha'} ({Duj ngaDHa'} from 
> KGT) used on a verb acting as an adjective following a noun, but we 
> have no reason to believe that the rule as stated is wrong about 
> non-rover suffixes.

Well, yes, but we've never been given such a rule, and have had to 
suppose that this is the correct rule. I could imagine, for instance, 
that the rule is to allow any suffix that doesn't stop the verb from 
expressing pure quality. For instance, *loD Quchba'*/obviously happy 
man/ seems to make perfect sense. I'm not saying that's the rule, just 
that it's another possible rule.

So when we got the *-be'* and *-Ha'* exceptions to the adjectival rule, 
it's because we saw them in the wild, without explanation. Those don't 
prove a rule; they just show us additional allowed suffixes.

I take the point that there IS a rule given to us, but the rule is 
clearly incomplete.

Anyway, even if we suppose Okrand added a *-laH* to an adjectival verb 
before deciding he shouldn't have done that, what sentence did he do 
that in that called for retrofitting? It would have to be something 
already published, otherwise he wouldn't have needed to retrofit it. The 
only sentences that came out before TKD are the ones in /Star Trek III,/ 
neglecting the clipped one-word commands of the original Star Trek 
movie, and *lo'laH* does not appear to be used in any of them.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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