[tlhIngan Hol] prefix trick with {-'eghmoH} and {-chuqmoH}

[De'vID]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 14:14, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:

> The verb muv means "to join".
>
> There's the Ca'Non sentence:
>
> Qo'noS tuqmey muvchuqmoH qeylIS
> kahless united the tribes of kronos
>
> Which actually means "kahless caused the tribes of kronos to join each
> other".
>

Right, the tribes join *each other* (and not something unspecified). That
is, it means something like {muvchuq tuqmey. 'e' qaSmoH qeylIS.}


> And now let's come to the prefix trick.
>
> qanob'eghmoH
> I cause you to give yourself something (which isn't specified)
>

This is like {bInob'egh. 'e' vIqaSmoH}. The thing given isn't unspecified,
because {-moH} indicates that the verb acts on the performer of the action.
Your sentence (if it's even grammatical) means "I cause you to give
yourself."

Also, I don't see how this is an application of the prefix trick. What's
the version of the sentence where the indirect object has been made
explicit? (For example, {taj qanob} means {SoHvaD taj vInob}. Is
{qanob'eghmoH} supposed to mean *{SoHvaD vInob'eghmoH}?)


> SanobchuqmoH
> I cause you to give each other something (which isn't specified)
>

If Kahless had said to the tribes, {SamuvchuqmoH}, it would mean the tribes
join *each other*. Similarly, {SanobchuqmoH} means "I cause you to give
each other" (i.e., what you give isn't unspecified, it's each other).
{Sunobchuq. 'e' vIqaSmoH.}

Again, how is your sentence an application of the prefix trick? What's the
version with the indirect object made explicit? *{tlhIHvaD vInobchuqmoH}?


> taj qanob'eghmoH
> I cause you to give yourself a knife
>
> taj SanobchuqmoH
> I cause you to give each other a knife
>
> In the above last two examples, seemingly/apparently the prefix trick rule
> isn't violated.
>

It doesn't appear to be violated because it isn't being applied.


> So, seemingly/apparently we *can* use the prefix trick with {-'eghmoH} and
> {-chuqmoH}.
>
> Right ?
>

I can see no evidence for this claim based on what you're written above.

-- 
De'vID
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20200709/9a4457e7/attachment-0015.htm>