[tlhIngan Hol] meaning of an {x-mo' verb-be'} sentence

Will Martin willmartin2 at mac.com
Sun Jan 12 11:02:00 PST 2020


charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan

rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.

> On Jan 12, 2020, at 8:54 AM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> 
> On 1/12/2020 8:19 AM, Will Martin wrote:
>> Clearly, *I* am not being understood, since accusers such as yourself consistently presume my motives with wild inaccuracy. 
>> 
>> The intriguing part is that I’m being accused of... wait for it... presuming your motives with wild inaccuracy. 
> lughchu' mayqel pum.
> 
> bIjatlhpu': "If he’s saying that he dodged a bullet, then perhaps his focus on being concise has trumped his interest in being understood."
> 
> jangpu' mayqel: "You have the *really* nasty habit, of constantly judging other people's motives, with regards to how they're willing to use the language." 
> 
> lughchu'. mayqel meq DanoHpu'. wIyajchu'qu'.
> 

meqlIj? meqlIj vInoHbe’. I know that I do not understand other people’s motives. I do note their apparent priorities. That’s very much not the same thing. I’m frequently surprised by how often others presume to understand MY motives. I’m saying this in English because I have little enough faith that it can be communicated well to you and mayqel in English and far less faith that you can handle that subtlety of intent in Klingon.

Ironically, I’ve tried to talk about how important Klingon cultural context is in understanding expressions, and I forgot about the cultural context of this list. In this list, the cultural context is that I’m expected to be a jerk with evil motives, so whatever I say gets that baggage added to it, whether it deserves it or not. It’s just assumed.

A motive is a “why”. A priority is a “what”. They are quite different in character.
>> I presume nothing about what you intended to poorly communicate.
> "If he’s saying that he dodged a bullet, then perhaps his focus on being concise has trumped his interest in being understood."
> 
> tlhIngan Hol jatlhlu'taHvIS, chay' presumption jatlhlu'? mu'tlheghvam Delchu' mu'vam.
> 
> batlh Qumpu' mayqel. vay' yajchu'be'pu', vaj boQmaj neHpu'.
> 
Focus is not motive. It’s priority. There’s an option to be concise. There’s an option to be comprehensively understood. He appeared to lean in toward being concise.

That’s not evil or wrong, though it does have consequences. Conciseness is positively valued in Klingon culture, and this is reflected in the language. 

None of this has anything to do with motives. You and he seem remarkably drawn toward wanting to talk about motives. If that trend has a motive behind it, I honestly don’t understand it. I prefer to assume that a person understands their own motives better than I do, so I try not to comment on it, unless it really gets in the way of communication to avoid the topic.

My motive is that I want to play. You guys seem to want to argue and insult. I have no idea why.

I’m quite certain that I am part of the problem. I write too much and I am outspoken, and I react negatively to being told what not to say, especially when I don’t think I said a specific thing I’m told that I’ve said because of an important difference in shade of meaning between my intent and what I’m accused of intending.

I think that’s one of the ways you and I are alike, which is why we get into these long, angsty dialogs. Each of us is determined to straighten out a picky detail about what the other one falsely accused the other of saying. Neither of us reads the others words carefully enough, though we both try to. Neither of us expresses ourselves perfectly enough, though we both try to.

We’re both probably pretty good people. We just each snag each other's surfaces that we want to be perfectly smooth, and as we each pick away at smaller and smaller, insignificant details, we fail to notice the vast smooth surface of our agreements. They are mysteriously less important to us.

Tomayto. Tomahto. Let’s call the whole thing off.
>>  I’ve lost interest in the thread entirely,
> vaj qatlh QInvam DangeHpu''a' jay'? mu' Qav DaneH.
> 
Great question, very similar to your {jISaHbe’}, quickly followed by insisting that I answer some question you had next to {jISaHbe’} that I didn’t bother with because, hey, you don’t care, right? Why ask a question about something you don’t care about, and then get huffy about not getting an answer?

Silly argumentative games I do not pretend to understand.
>> having lost the faith that anything I write will be read without the veins protruding from your throat as soon as you see it’s from me regardless of content.
> rut maQochHa', 'ej ngugh jIjatlh maQochHa'. bo'Dagh'a' Dalo’.
> 
ghaytan bIlughchu’. I was feeling like I’m solo in the ring with the two of you tag teaming. My defensiveness was a reasonable personal flaw, given the circumstance.

>> Your attitude about the source (me) makes further meaningful communication unlikely to be effective. 
> 
> The source consistently makes improved attitude unlikely to be realized.
> 
I’ll work on that.

My compulsion to overthink things can have positive results.

Tune in again next week. I have more capacity to change than you probably credit me with.
>> I no longer care what you think on this topic. I will leave you to presume or express whatever you like however you like.
> maj. bImejDI', DungeQ lojmIt 'e' yIchaw'Qo’.
> 
See? You DO have a sense of humor. chaq mareHlaH. ghaytanHa’ tugh… bIloStaHvIS, yItlhuHtaH.
> -- 
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20200112/e6319176/attachment.html>


More information about the tlhIngan-Hol mailing list