[tlhIngan Hol] thoughts on Qeq face (orient towards)

[SuStel]

On 8/18/2020 10:19 AM, Will Martin wrote:
> vIchup:
>
> julDaq Qeq Duj.
>
> The ship faces the Sun.
>
> Qeqchuq Duj.
>
> The ships face each other.

No. Okrand was very specific. The object is the entity which is being 
oriented toward the locative. The subject causes this orientation.

/The ship faces the sun.
/

If you just want to report the ship's orientation (e.g., the ship is 
currently facing the sun), then you either have to bring in a new 
subject, use a reflexive one, or use an indefinite one:

*julDaq Duj Qeqpu' DeghwI'
*/The helmsman faced the ship toward the sun./

*julDaq Qeqpu''egh Duj
*/The ship faced itself toward the sun./

*julDaq Duj Qeqlu'pu'
*/The ship has been faced toward the sun./

I used perfective here because to describe the ship currently facing the 
sun, it's logical that the action that caused this orientation is finished.

/The ships face each other./

This is non-trivial to translate into Klingon, since we don't have 
reflexive locatives.

*tlhIngan DujDaq DIvI' Duj Qeqlu'pu' 'ej DIvI' DujDaq tlhIngan Duj Qeqlu'pu'
*/The Klingon and Federation ships face each other./

Variations, etc.

You might get away with something like

*DujmeyDaq Dujmey luQeqlu'pu'
*/The ships face the ships./

//

> SIla’Daq Qeq’egh HoD.
>
> The captain faced himself in the mirror. He didn’t merely face the 
> mirror. He wasn’t standing off to the side, looking at someone else in 
> the mirror. He faced himself in the mirror.

This sentence means that the captain stood in such a position that he 
was oriented toward the mirror. Literally it means /The captain aimed 
himself toward the mirror./ Remember, *Qeq* meaning /face/ is just a 
generalization of the idea of aiming. The syntax remains the same.


> We can’t get too hung up trying to make prepositions in English 
> directly match a literal translation of Klingon. These glosses and 
> verbal guidelines are primarily intended to explain how a word conveys 
> meaning and works grammatically in Klingon.

No indeed, but we do have to pay attention when Okrand explicitly tells 
us the grammar of a word, and he has done so here.


> If {Qeq} has what English would consider a direct object as in “The 
> ship faces the Sun,” or a prepositional object “The ship orients 
> itself toward the Sun”, that noun requires {-Daq} in Klingon.

Don't try to turn this into a formula. It's bound to get messed up in 
the more complex grammar of English /face./ In English, the object of 
/face/ can be both the target of orientation (/I face the sun;/ I stand 
orientated toward the sun) and the entity that is oriented (/I face the 
captain toward the sun;/ I turn the captain so that he is oriented 
toward the sun). Klingon *Qeq* corresponds to the latter, not the former.


-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20200818/f58268ae/attachment-0015.htm>