[tlhIngan Hol] {-pu'} vs {-ta'} on verbs of speech

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Mon Apr 20 10:20:09 PDT 2020


On 4/20/2020 1:13 PM, SuStel wrote:
> On 4/20/2020 11:45 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
>> Am 20.04.2020 um 14:55 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
>>> With the exception of the three cases already mentioned, people talk
>>> intentionally. They set out to talk, and then do so.
>>
>> Well, based on that logic, almost everything is done intentionally.
>>
>> But here's an interesting counter example from canon: In Star Trek 3,
>> Kruge yelled at his gunner {qaja'pu': jonta' neH} "I told you: only the
>> engine!"
>>
>> This is repeated in TKD:
>>
>> <<<
>> This suffix indicates that an action is completed. It is often
>> translated by the English present perfect ("have done something").
>>
>>     {Daleghpu'} "you have seen it" ({legh} "see")
>>     {vIneHpu'} "I wanted them" ({neH} "want")
>>     {qaja'pu'} "I told you" ({ja'} "tell")
>> >>>
>>
>> So it is possible to have an accomplished saying that was obviously
>> intentionally, but yet not as an accomplished deliberately undertaken
>> action.
>
> Kruge's quotation does not prove that. The use of *-ta'* instead of 
> *-pu'* is always optional, even if the subject set out to accomplish 
> the action and did it. When Kruge says *qaja'pu' jonta' neH,* we don't 
> know if he doesn't think *-ta'* is correct here or if he's just 
> optionally not using *-ta'.* Or if he even cares.
>
>
>> The difference is that you can of course speak intentionally, but you
>> can speak without planning to say something, that's why -pu' is used
>> instead of -ta'.
>
> Or you simply don't intend to express the intention behind a completed 
> action. *qaja'ta'*/I told you, and I accomplished my intention; 
> /*qaja'pu'*/I told you, but I'm not saying whether I set out to 
> accomplish it or not./
>
What are we talking about anyway? Kruge says *qama'pu' jonta' 
neH*/Wanted prisoners!/ The /I told you/ bit comes from an earlier phase 
of the language before the line was changed.

The phrase in TKD we're looking for is *qaja'pu' HIqaghQo'*/I told you 
not to interrupt me!/

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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