[tlhIngan Hol] using {je} with two different verbs

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Mon Oct 7 08:10:31 PDT 2019


These are interesting enough to analyze one by one.


On 10/7/2019 10:37 AM, Steven Boozer wrote:
>
> Other examples came later:
>
> Dargh vIqem je
> I'll bring tea also. CK
>
I'll bring tea in addition to bringing your dinner. (Previous sentence: 
*SoHvaD 'uQ wej vIqem*/I'll bring you dinner number three./)


> jIghung je
> I am also hungry. PK
>
In addition to you being hungry, I am hungry. (Previous sentence: 
*jIghung*/I am hungry./)


> jI'oj je
> I am also thirsty. PK
>
I addition to you being thirsty, I am thirsty. (Previous sentence: 
*jI'oj*/I am thirsty./)


> notlh veS... 'a tugh manotlhchoH je maH
> War is obsolete... as we are in danger of becoming. ST6
>
We and war are both (soon to be) obsolete.


> pInaDqu' tuqlIj wInaDqu' je
> Glory to you and your house.
> ("We praise you highly; we also praise your house highly") KGT
>
We commend both you and your house.


> ghop luQan tajHommey.  pe'laH je.
> [the blades] providing both a hand guard and another set of cutting 
> edges. SP2
>
In addition to protecting the hand, the blades also cut.

This is the first time in this list that *je* is used to join two 
different verbs, in the same manner as *jISop. jItlhutlh je.* The 
subject remains the same between the sentences.


> qep'a' wejDIchDaq jatlhtaH tlhIngan Hol HaDwI'pu'.  ghoHtaH je. 
>  tIv'eghtaH je.
> [untranslated]  (st.k, MO to SuStel 11/1996)
>
Another case of the verb changing while the subject stays the same. The 
subjects are speaking, arguing, and enjoying themselves.


> chalqachDaq bIQaDbe' je
> Even in a tower you are not safe. PB
>
This is apparently the first canonical instance of *je* being used for 
English /even./ I remember Nick Nicholas did this all the time in his 
Shakespearean translations, and I resisted it. The previous sentence is 
*SanlIj DanarghlaHbe',* so the literal translation is /You cannot escape 
your fate; you are also not safe (slang) in a tower./


> Qo'noSDaq boqwI'mey nejmeH je leng qeylIS 'ej chaHvaD lut ja'
> Kahless also went out to search for allies across Kronos, and told 
> them his tale. PB
>
In the previous two stanzas, Kahless grows mighty and strong, "and it 
fueled his will to fight." Then you get why he "also" traveled. There is 
very little connection between these two things.


> QIStaqDaq cholonDI' jIyIn DaH jIyIn je
> I am alive as I was when you left me at Kri'stak  (PB)
>
This is the first example I can think of where the difference between 
the two sentences is the adverbial. I lived then and I also live now.

My conclusion is that *je* is not restricted to the examples in /TKD/ 
where it is treated like the noun conjunction is spread across two 
instances of the verb. That is, *qaleghpu' je *seems to be *SoH pIlegh 
jIH latlhpu' je* or *SoH latlhpu' je Saleghpu',* but it can be used for 
*qaQoypu' 'ej qaleghpu'***and if you say *wa'Hu' qaleghpu' je* then it 
can even be used for *cha'Hu' qaleghpu' 'ej wa'Hu' qaleghpu'.* I can't 
rule out the grammaticality of mayqel's suggestion, though I again 
question its necessity.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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