[tlhIngan Hol] {-oy} following an open syllable

kechpaja at kechpaja.com kechpaja at kechpaja.com
Mon Nov 4 12:58:56 PST 2019


A {qaghwI'} would be one option to break the vowel sequence, but I could 
easily imagine {w} being used after {o} or {u}, or {y} after {I} (or 
maybe {e}). One might also see the elision of the suffix's vowel, 
especially after another {o} (i.e. {Do} + {-oy} might get {Doy}). 

It also isn't that strange for a language to have an affix that can't 
attach to words with certain phonological shapes, even if the resulting 
word wouldn't violate any phonological rules. For instance, the English 
deadjectival verbalizing suffix "-en" that we see in words such as 
"redden" and "darken" (it's generally used with color terms, but can 
occasionally occur with other adjectives) cannot be added to adjectives 
ending in a vowel or sonorant — which is why you don't hear *yellowen or 
*greenen. So it could just be the case that if a Klingon wants to 
construct a {bang pong} using {-oy} from a word ending in a vowel, they 
have to find some workaround (perhaps adding another word in between? 
{ghu nuvoy}, anyone?). 

 - SapIr

On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 08:01:35PM +0000, Steven Boozer wrote:
>I've checked all the {bang pongmey} that I know of and couldn't find any example of one formed from a CV noun.  They may well exist but we've never come across one and it's unlikely we ever will.  As Okrand explains in KGT: "one of the defining characteristics of a {bang pong} is that it be secret, known only by the two members of the couple".
>
>As to inserting a {qaghwI'} for euphony, note that Okrand says WRT {Ho'oy}: "It is also enormously important that this word be pronounced correctly so that it is not misconstrued as {Ho''oy'} ["toothache"])."  If it happens, I suspect that it would only be those where there isn't an corresponding CV noun with a final {qaghwI'} that might be misunderstood, misconstrued, or worse, insulting.
>
>
>FYI, here's the section on {bang pong} from KGT:
>
>(KGT 199ff.):  ... couples (officially married and otherwise) tend to call each other by pet names (sometimes called endearments or hypocorisms or, in Klingon, {bang pongmey} [beloveds' names]). A {bang pong} is usually couple-specific--that is, the set of expressions used by one couple is different from that used by another couple. Pet names are almost never uttered unless the two members of the couple are alone and, therefore, are seldom known by anyone else. Indeed, one of the defining characteristics of a bang pong is that it be secret, known only by the two members of the couple.
>    The phenomenon of the {bang pong}, however, is not secret. Usually, parents teach their children how the system works and have to give examples in doing so, though it is not known whether the example pet names are actual pet names used by the parents doing the teaching. Sometimes, however, children learn about the custom from other children. In particular, younger children often tell each other pet names they have heard. A child who has a reputation for revealing pet names is usually quite popular among other children, though older Klingons, upon finding out about his or her lack of propriety, will certainly take disciplinary action. As children grow older and start to experience {parmaq} (love, romance) themselves, they tend to become quite protective of their own {bang pongmey}. Primarily because of the conversations of children, but also because, despite all precautions, one member of a couple is on rare occasion overheard saying a {bang pong}, it is possible to give a small number of examples.
>    A {bang pong} is formed by attaching {-oy}, the suffix indicating endearment, to an everyday noun. Most of the resulting terms make very little sense to anyone not in the particular relationship, and none translates well. Some pet terms are based on words for kinds of food, such as {chatlhoy} and {'awje'oy}. Perhaps these words could be rendered in Federation Standard as "soupy" and "poppy" (from soda pop), though neither translation conveys the intimacy and intensity of the Klingon. Other terms consist of words for weapons plus {-oy}: for example: {yanoy, HIchoy, tajoy, jorwI'oy}. A third type involves body parts, Klingon or otherwise, as in {'uSoy, 'aDoy, pIpoy, pachoy}. Another term based on a body part, {Ho'oy}, is one of the few that makes sense to a non-Klingon if it is remembered that {Ho'} is a slang term for "hero, idol". (It is also enormously important that this word be pronounced correctly so that it is not misconstrued as {Ho''oy'} ["toothache"]).
>    Because of the nature of the {parmaq} relationship, misusing a {bang pong} is a serious cultural offense. This could mean, among other things, revealing a {bang pong} to someone other than one's {parmaqqay}, revealing a third party's {bang pong} (regardless of how this information was acquired), addressing one's {parmaqqay} by the wrong pet name, or using a {bang pong} in a public setting. Unless a visitor gets involved in a serious relationship with a Klingon, it is strongly advised that one avoid saying anything that can be misinterpreted as a misused {bang pong}.
>
>--
>Voragh
>Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>-----Original Message----------Original Message----------Original Message----------Original Message-----
>From: Hugh Son puqloD
>
>Do we have canon information about what happens to the type four noun suffix {-oy} when it follows an open (CV) syllable? I always figured a qaghwI' would be inserted to preserve phonology, e.g. so that only context would make it clear that {ghu'oy} and {ta'oy} don’t refer to beloved situations and records, respectively, but I don’t have any actual reason for believing this other than consecutive vowels being illegal. Would a Klingon speaker break the normal phonology to say something like *{ghuoy}?
>
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