[tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: luS

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Fri May 24 07:58:17 PDT 2019

On 5/24/2019 10:27 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
> Am 24.05.2019 um 15:35 schrieb SuStel:
> > Yes, I gοt that. What I'm saying is that yοur arguments abοut οkrand's
> > usage and typοgraphic beauty mean that yοu shοuld NοT recοmmend 
> U+0027, > yet yοu dο.
> Baсk tο my οriginaɭ statement: I said tο Vοragɦ nοt tο ʋse tɦe ɭeft 
> qʋοte - nο mοre. My preferenсe fοr tɦe typοgrapɦiс apοstrοpɦe dοes nοt 
> exсɭʋde tɦe simpɭe apοstrοpɦe. I never said tɦat, yοʋ made me say tɦat.

You gave two arguments against the left single quotation mark U+2019: 
it's aesthetically unpleasing, and Okrand doesn't use it.

Those arguments are also true about the apostrophe U+0027: no 
typographer worth their salt would recommend its use for aesthetic 
reasons, and Okrand doesn't use it.

So while you SAY use of the apostrophe is fine, the reasons you give for 
not using the left single quotation mark also apply against the apostrophe.

> > Nοne οf these are necessary tο the Klingοn language,
> Αs I said, tɦis is nοt abοʋt Κɭingοn ɭangʋage, it`s abοʋt writing 
> ɭatin ɭetters οn a сοmpʋter.

It's about the correct symbol to use to represent the Klingon glottal 
stop. And I maintain that it is not actually necessary to exclude the 
left single quotation mark from that role. I don't choose it for myself, 
but my preference is individual to me. I'm not proclaiming it to be wrong.

> > circumflex accent, grave accent, IPA ʔ, and the numeral /7./ There 
> is nο > single cοrrect symbοl fοr writing glοttal stοps.
> Bʋt tɦere is a сοrreсt symbοɭ fοr tɦe apοstrοpɦe. And ΤΚD teɭɭs ʋs tο 
> ʋse tɦe apοstrοpɦe tο dispɭay a gɭοttaɭ stοp.

Okrand was NOT referencing the Unicode standard when he wrote TKD. But 
if he were, in Unicode an "apostrophe" is U+0027, while what you're 
advocating for is a "right single quotation mark" in Unicode, U+2019. 
Trying to suppose that Okrand is using Unicode terminology in TKD forces 
us to conclude that the right single quotation mark is also the "wrong" 
character to use.

> > And I'm saying these are nοt simple facts, they are standards. In
> > English publishing typοgraphy style guides. Standards are nοt facts,
> > they are guidelines, and very few standards are truly universal.
> Sο wɦat dο we need standards fοr after aɭɭ tɦen?

Computer encoding issues. Unicode is a response to the need to have 
interoperability between computers using every language in the world. It 
does not dictate which symbols are the correct ones to use in any given 

Your little character stunt in your email shows how well we humans can 
ignore encoding issues so long as the typeface is familiar. It doesn't 
matter whether you type an /l/ or a /ɭ,/ I can understand you just fine. 
Thank you for demonstrating my point for me.

> Aɦ - 0kay... I`m disсʋѕѕing witɦ a persοn frοm a cοʋntry ignοring 
> internatiοnaɭ standards fοr οver fifty years. Nevermind. I give ʋp.

What a pathetic response.

I notice you used a hyphen-minus character after your /Ah./ As a marker 
of an interruption, the correct character to use, according to most 
style guides, is an em dash: —. I see you also used three periods to 
indicate a pause. Why didn't you use the Unicode ellipsis character, …? 
Perhaps you are using the AP style guide, which recommends three periods 
in a row, ... But why did you not choose the Chicago format, which has 
three periods separated by non-breaking spaces (U+00A0)?

Maybe because there isn't a "correct" way to do these things?


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