[tlhIngan Hol] placing {-lu'} on {'oH} and {ghaH}

De'vID de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com
Sun Jul 7 13:31:04 PDT 2019

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 at 21:24, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:

> On 7/5/2019 1:14 PM, De'vID wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 at 17:15, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> There's something, which feels strange seeing/reading the {ghaHlu'}, but
>> I can't find what it actually is.
> I think this is impossible, because {-lu'} works with the pronominal
> prefixes, and pronouns never take prefixes.
> Prefixes aren't inherent to the job that *-lu'* plays. Using *-lu'*
> simply makes you use *different* prefixes.
If something never takes prefixes to begin with, how can it ever take
different prefixes? That's the problem I have with trying to interpret
something like {ghaHlu'}.

> The sentence *Daqawlu'taH** you will be remembered* is simply a
> pronoun-elided version of *SoH Daqawlu'taH.* The prefix doesn't make the
> indefinite subject work; it simply agrees in a different way than sentences
> with subjects. All the *-lu'* really means is "no subject here."
I don't see what this has to do with pronouns. We know how {-lu'} works
with (normal) verbs.

> I can't see any problem with using *-lu'* with the third-person pronouns.
> First- and second-person pronoun "to be" sentences use the pronoun itself
> as the subject; third-person "to be" sentences can take third-person nouns
> as their subjects. *verengan ghaHlu'chugh, qurlu'ba'** If one is a
> Ferengi, one is obviously greedy.* This is just the no-subject equivalent
> to *verengan ghaHchugh vay''e', qurba' vay'vetlh.*
But you do see a problem with using {-lu'} with {jIH} and {SoH}. "I, who am
indefinite, am..." would be a weird thing to say (outside of maybe a
philosophical work).

I think this extends to {ghaHlu'} as well. I read {ghaHlu'} as something
self-contradictory, like "he or she, who is indefinite, is...". I
understand your interpretation, but I don't see any reason to think
third-person works any differently than first- or second-person.

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