[tlhIngan Hol] Expressing "because of this additional"

[Will Martin]

I concede the point. Okrand has a very slippery range of use for {latlh}. Sometimes, it makes sense in terms of it being a stand-alone noun in a noun-noun genitive construction. Perhaps most often, it does make sense interpreted that way. Then again, there are times when it’s more like he just took the English phrase “other [noun]” and replaced it with {latlh [noun]} in the Klingon sentence.

It rubs me the wrong way that he does stuff like this, that makes translation easier by not being grammatically consistent with what a noun is supposed to be doing in the language with a word he has only defined as a noun. It’s like having all aliens look like humans wearing prosthetics, or like being able to breathe on every planet they land on and having Earth-like gravity on every planet they go to.

It’s a step towards sloppy translation, and it doesn’t stick to the fictional culture with grippy-enough feet. It’s just kinda ugly, making me look for alternatives, even if doing it this way is perfectly acceptable.

It’s not my standard for the list, but it is my standard for myself. I just don’t enjoy using a noun as if it were an English adjective, preserving English word order because English has a word that is both a noun and an adjective, while Klingon supposedly doesn’t. “On the other hand”. In English, “other” is not a noun.

If {latlh} were an adjectival verb meaning “be other”, then it would follow the noun it modifies.

But no. It just goes before the other noun because that’s how it happens in English. We can be that sloppy. It’s okay.

charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan

rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.




> On Feb 22, 2019, at 11:13 AM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> 
> On 2/22/2019 10:54 AM, Will Martin wrote:
>> 
>> It’s easy to forget that {latlh} is a noun and not quite the grammatical equivalent of the English word “other”. I suspect we overuse it when alternatives would be clearer. 
> Some canonical uses of latlh that are unambiguously not as a standalone noun...
> 
> HeghDI' tlhIngan SuvwI' pagh tlhIngan SuvwI' HoHlu'DI' Heghtay lulop latlh tlhInganpu'.
> When a Klingon warrior dies or is killed, other Klingons may perform a ceremonial howl or yell as part of the Klingon death ritual. (SkyBox S31)
> 
> latlh HIvje'Daq 'Iw HIq bIr yIqang!
> Pour the cold bloodwine into another glass! (KGT)
> 
> latlh HIvje'Daq 'Iw HIq bIr vIqang
> I pour the cold bloodwine into another glass (KGT)
> 
> QIt wa’ qa’ nuD veqlargh
>     QIt latlh qa’ nuD veqlargh
>     Hegh lurur mInDu’Daj
> Fek’lhr inspects them,
>     One by one,
>     With his deadly glance. (PB)
> 
> Sepvetlh latlh DopDaq
>     Hatlh lengtaHvIS qeylIS
>     lutlhej tlhInganpu’ Hem mI’ nIb
> On the other side of the land,
>     Kahless traveled the lands
>     With an equal number of proud Klingons. (PB — notice the other side, which was being talked about before)
> 
> vIHbe’choH latlh SuvwI’pu’
>     bey HoS QoymeH
>     ‘IjmeH QamtaH
> The rest of the warriors stopped,
>     They stood and listened,
>     To hear the mighty howl. (PB)
> 
> 
> Okrand seems to be fairly free with his use of latlh. When modifying another noun, it sometimes means some unspecified extra number, sometimes it means one other, it sometimes means the next one, it sometimes means all the remaining somethings, and it sometimes means the opposite version of something.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20190222/037ff15f/attachment-0016.htm>