[tlhIngan Hol] -moH on ghoS and jaH

[SuStel]

On 2/20/2019 11:38 AM, Jeffrey Clark wrote:
> Recently the list had a short discussion about the difference between 
> {pa'Daq jIghoS} and {pa' vIghoS}.
>
> I'm curious about the relationship between those things when you add 
> -moH onto the end of it.
>
> Is {pa'Daq qaghoSmoH} "I cause you to come to the room" or is it 
> "While in the room, I cause you to come (somewhere unspecified)"? 
> Intuitively, I feel like it should be the former, but I'm unsure.

Let's preface this with the understanding that we're talking about *pa'* 
/room,/ not *pa'*/thereabouts./ I'd actually rather change this word to 
*Duj*/vessel/ so we don't get confused, because *pa'* causes all sorts 
of problems with this analysis. Let's also assume we're not going to be 
redundant by adding *-Daq* to a verb's object. The following completely 
ignores that possibility.

Remember this conversation 
(http://klingonska.org/canon/1997-06-29a-news.txt) where Okrand says 
that you can tell that *qajatlh* is employing what we later called the 
prefix trick, because the direct object of *jatlh* is the thing spoken, 
not the person spoken to, so if the prefix indicates the person spoken 
to it must be indicating the indirect object.

    Since the object of *jatlh *is that which is spoken, and since /you/
    or /I/ or /we/ cannot be spoken (and therefore cannot be the object
    of the verb), if the verb is used with a pronominal prefix
    indicating a first- or second-person object, that first or second
    person is the indirect object.

We have exactly the same situation here. The (direct) object of *ghoS* 
is the path followed, not the person following it, so since the prefix 
*qa-* indicates a person, it must be indicating the indirect object. 
There's your prefix trick right there. *DujDaq qaghoSmoH* means /In the 
ship, I cause you to go (along some unspecified path)./ It's ambiguous 
in the sentence whether you or I or both of us are in the ship, but 
you're not going /to/ the ship. Going to the ship would be *Duj 
qaghoSmoH* or *SoHvaD Duj vIghoSmoH.*

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20190220/c4f666e4/attachment-0002.htm>