[tlhIngan Hol] can we apply {ngagh} to humans ?

qurgh lungqIj qurgh at wizage.net
Wed Dec 18 13:17:19 PST 2019

On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 4:06 PM SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:

> On 12/18/2019 3:45 PM, qurgh lungqIj wrote:
> I'd rather not frame it either way. I'd rather use the words to describe
> actions regardless of what my cultural or linguistic biases might try to
> dictate about those actions.
> Klingon is not a technical or programming language; it does not express
> objective truths beyond cultural or linguistic biases. It has those biases
> built in on purpose, and many of the words Okrand gives us come with some
> kind of cultural or linguistic note on their usage.
Right, and I want to use ITS cultural and linguistic biases, not the ones
I've been raised with in my language and culture. This is my
personal choice. You do you, and I'll do me.

> The answer is we don't know. The English glosses aren't enough to
> determine this. The reason he probably thinks this might be the split is
> because in English *mate* is something animals do, while *have sex* is
> something people do, and this is how the glosses were given to us. Whether
> the Klingon usages of the words matches the English usages of those
> phrases, we don't know. Star Trek makes this determination even murkier,
> since aliens are often said to *mate* with each other, while Terrans are
> not.
We do know that ngagh can refer to what "people" do, since we have
{targhlIj yIngagh! yIruch!}. That's a clear example of one "person" telling
another "person" to do an act with an "animal". To me, that usage seems to
match with how we use the f-word, and is what led me to speculate that
{ngagh} is what one thing does to another thing, regardless of if that
thing would be classified as a "person" or an "animal".

> You gave your speculation, for which you seem to agree we have no
> evidence. I didn't see any reason to comment on that. For your part, you
> ignored my request to provide an example of how someone in the mainstream
> would use the word *mate* to refer to people having sex.
I did, because it's totally off-topic and has nothing to do with the
Klingon language. I have no interest in helping you locate information
about English that you can locate yourself.

Anyway, I have no interest in talking to you further. My original answers
were to mayqel's questions. If he wants to continue the conversation, I

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