[tlhIngan Hol] when to {-vaD} and when to {-Daq}

[SuStel]

On 12/5/2019 9:39 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
> Am 05.12.2019 um 15:28 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
> > If we want to say "I gave the knife to the officer", we say {yaSvaD
> taj vInob}.
> >
> > Can someone please explain, why it would be wrong to say {yaSDaq taj
> vInob} ?
> >
> > ~ bara'qa'
>
> First I thought this should be clear, but with furrther thinking, I
> understnad your question.

English, and I'm sure some other languages, use the same preposition 
/(to)/ to indicate locatives and recipients. This is the source of the 
confusion.


> Basically, -Daq is to be used as a locative. When you give something to
> someone, in English you use the same word ("A to B"), but neither of you
> changes their location. Still you may say that the knives moves from A
> to B, but then you should remember that -Daq is used in that sense only
> with verbs of motion (walk, go, travel).

This is misleading. For one thing, *yIt* is not a "verb of motion" in 
the sense of it being a verb with an inherently locative meaning the way 
*jaH* and *leng* are. You cannot say *vaS'a' vIyIt* for /I walk to the 
Great Hall./ When you use one of these non-locative verbs, any locative 
you attach to it can mean the action happens in or near that location, 
but it can also mean that the locative is the destination of the action. 
*vaS'a' jIyIt*/I walk in/at/on/by/to the Great Hall./

In verbs with an inherently locative sense, the /in/at/by/on/ meaning is 
separated from the /to/ meaning. If a noun is the object of one of these 
verbs, it has a /to/ sense. If it's put in front of the object, it has 
the other senses. *vaS'a'Daq vIjaH* means my destination is the Great 
Hall (and the *-Daq* is considered redundant). *vaS'a'Daq jIjaH* means 
I'm in, near, or on the Great Hall and I'm going somewhere inside it. 
*vaS'a'Daq Qang pa' vIjaH*/I go to the chancellor's room in the Great Hall./


> Using -Daq in the process of giving something, it somehow sounds like "I
> gave the knife into the direction of the officer" which may be
> understood, but sounds very awkward.

It could also mean that while I'm in the location of the officer, I give 
the knife to someone not specified. Not at all the intended meaning.


> -vaD is defined as marking the benificient of the action, so "I gave it
> to him" literally means in Klingon "I gave it and he was the receiving
> person." No movement implied, so no -Daq used.

No location implied at all, movement or otherwise.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20191205/3ca6ba37/attachment.htm>