[tlhIngan Hol] Mandos bIghHa' notqa'

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Fri Aug 23 10:43:45 PDT 2019

On 8/23/2019 1:19 PM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
> Then hate overcame Fëanor’s fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be 
> gone, saying: ‘Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!’ 
> And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all 
> the dwellers in Eä.
> tlh:
> wa'DIch ghIj feanor, 'ach tagha' muSqu'choHmo', melkor tIchmeH 'ej 
> mejmoHmeH HoS Suq. vaj jatlh:
> lojmItwIjvo' yIghoS, mandos bIghHa' notqa' !
> ea nganpu''e', melkor Dun law' Hoch Dun puS; 'ach, feanor juH 
> lojmItmeyDaq QamtaHvIS melkor, ghaHvaD lojmItmeyvam SoQmoH feanor.
> discussion:
> This is the best I could do.
> After finishing this, and reading your translation, I have to comment:
> 1st:
> I liked *a lot* your {Melkor 'IghmoH}. Sadly it didn't come to my mind 
> while I was writing my version.
> 2nd:
> SuStel:
> > Eä DabwI''e' Melkor HoSghaj law' Hoch HoSghaj puS;
> Initially I thought of using {DabwI'}, but I went with {ngan} because 
> I didn't know which was actually closer to "dwellers". My mind decided 
> to go with {ngan}.

*ngan* works too.

> However, I'm puzzled with your choice of {HoSghaj}. In english, is 
> "mighty" closer to "powerful", or closer to "greatest" ?

It means showing great power or strength. When Tolkien says that Melkor 
was the mightiest of the Ainur, he means Melkor was literally the most 

> 3rd:
> SuStel:
> > DabwI'vam qab tlhopDaq
> I thought of this too, but I wondered whether the "he shut the doors 
> of his house in the face of" was to be taken literally or metaphorically.

I considered this carefully. /In the face of/ has an idiomatic meaning 
of /when confronted with/ or /despite./ But here the meaning is very 
nearly completely literal: Melkor is standing before the doors, and 
Fëanor shuts them, the shutting taking place immediately in front of 
Melkor's face. The English expression also includes a connotation of 
rudeness that doesn't necessarily come across in the Klingon unless you 
think about it carefully, but I don't offhand know of any Klingon 
expression that would elegantly express both rudeness and the shutting 
of a door immediately in front of someone.

> 4th:
> jIH:
> > feanor juH lojmItmeyDaq QamtaHvIS melkor
> I wondered whether I could write too:
> {feanor juH lojmItmeyDaq ghaHtaHvIS melkor'e'}
> And I still wonder whether that would be correct too..

Sure, both of those are correct.


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