[tlhIngan Hol] Clarification on SIch

[SuStel]

On 4/11/2019 11:54 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
> Am 11.04.2019 um 11:28 schrieb De'vID:
>> latter is perfectly clear. While Okrand's examples are brief, they were
>> clearly chosen to disambiguate whether actual contact is included in the
>> meaning of {SIch}.
>
> Okrand wrote:
>> The intended meaning is (b), as in {paqvetlh DaSIchlaH'a'?} —
>> maybe the book's on a high shelf. Or {paq vISIch 'e' vInID}, which could
>> be translated "I reached for the book. The (a) meaning is covered by 
>> {paw}."
>
> Okay, I got the point with {paw}, no discussion. But the question
> {paqvetlh DaSIchlaH'a'} asks whether the goal can be achieved, right? If
> {SIch} means only "reach for" in the sense of stretching your arm, then
> it does not include the touching. I can reach for the stars, but surely
> won't touch them.

*SIch* doesn't mean /reach for;/ it means /reach./ The /reach for/ 
interpretation only works for his example *paq vISIch 'e' vInID;* it's 
the *'e' vInID* that makes the accomplishment uncertain, the /reach 
for./ If you just said *paq vISIch,* you're saying you stretch out your 
hand and grasp the book.

The correct sense of /reach/ in the Dictionary.com definition is number 
3: "to succeed in touching or seizing with an outstretched hand, a pole, 
etc." This is what Okrand describes *SIch* as meaning. It's not clear to 
me whether it could also mean sense 5: "to stretch or extend so as to 
touch or meet"; can we say *'aqroS SIch yorghmey*/The bookcase reaches 
the ceiling?/

*Hovmey vISIch 'e' vInID*/I reach for the stars;/ literally /I try to 
reach the stars./ This would only be interpreted literally; the English 
idiom meaning /achieve the highest goal/ isn't expressed. It says I'm 
stretching out my hand in a (vain) attempt to grasp the stars.


> So if {SIch} includes the touching, the answer to {DaSIchlaH'a'} is only
> 'yes' if I can touch. If {SIch} is only the movement
> ("reach-for-stars"), then the answer is always 'yes', unless my arm is
> broken. But if {SIch} includes both possibilities, both answers 'yes'
> and 'no' are always correct: I can always reach for something, even if I
> cannot reach it.

*SIch* includes the touching. The answer is only yes.

*vItlhap*/I take it.
/*vItlhap 'e' vInID*/I try to take it./ I take some kind of action to 
enable myself to take it.

Same relationship.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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