[tlhIngan Hol] mughmeH laH vs mughlaHghach

[SuStel]

On 5/16/2018 2:01 AM, Ed Bailey wrote:
> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 9:42 PM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name 
> <mailto:sustel at trimboli.name>> wrote:
>
>     On 5/15/2018 8:37 PM, Ed Bailey wrote:
>>       For instance, *ghItlhvam mughlu'meH laH chavlu'pu'be'* as a way
>>     of saying "No one has figured out how to translate this manuscript."
>
>
>     This says "One has not achieved this manuscript's ability in order
>     that one translates." That is, the manuscript has an ability to
>     translate something (not itself). Another reading, making the
>     purpose clause attach to *chav* instead of *laH,* would be /In
>     order that one translates this manuscript, one has not achieved
>     the ability./ This is close to what you want, but look closely at
>     the grammar. And look also at this post
>     <http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-01-18b-news.txt> by Okrand,
>     wherein he tries to resolve the problem of applying purpose
>     clauses to negative statements by avoiding the problem altogether.
>     (Did you carefully try not to achieve the ability, so that you
>     could translate the manuscript?)
>
> Your first translation assigns one of many possible genitive relations 
> between *ghItlhvam* and *laH*, but I can't fault you for interpreting 
> it differently than I intended since I proposed the example so you 
> could pick it apart and we can discuss how the grammar works. However, 
> it would be more neutral, if unidiomatic, to say "ability for one to 
> translate of this manuscript"

I'm going to remove the negative, to avoid the negative *-meH* problem.

*ghItlhvam mughlu'meH, laH chavlu'pu'
*/In order that one translates this manuscript, one has achieved the 
ability.
/

*[N1:ghItlhvam] [N2:mughlu'meH laH] chavlu'pu'
*/One has achieved this manuscript's ability for one to translate./

I don't see any other possible interpretations of this sentence. What 
are the many possible genitive relations?

In the first interpretation, the indefinite subject plans to translates 
the manuscript. In the second interpretation, the manuscript has an 
ability of translation. The *-lu'* might screw that up, but at best that 
makes the interpretation invalid; it doesn't give someone ELSE the 
ability to translate the manuscript, and it doesn't change the 
manuscript's ability to translate something into an ability for someone 
to translate IT.
**

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20180516/595b530e/attachment.htm>