[tlhIngan Hol] {-moH} and two things instead of three

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Wed Mar 21 10:41:52 PDT 2018


On 3/21/2018 1:29 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>
> SuStel:
>
> > In {YvaD X VmoH X}, X is the causer and the
>
> > done-to, which isn't one of those combinations
>
> > that I think requires a reflexive suffix. It seems
>
> > a correct construction.
>
>
> I think I understand your point, but there is something which still 
> confuses me.
>
>
> How can we write {YvaD X VmoH X}, since there is no verb prefix to 
> use, when both the subject and the object are the same person/persons ?
>
>
> In the verb prefix chart, when the subject and the object are the same 
> person/persons, then we have a dash (-), which means that we can't 
> write {YvaD X VmoH X}.
>
>
> So, if we needed to write a sentence as "the vulcans caused the 
> federation to accept them", then we can't write it in the form {YvaD X 
> VmoH X}, and we can't use {-'egh} or {-chuq}, so we need to recast.
>
>
> Would you agree with the above ?
>
/The Vulcans/ is just a third-person noun. If {YvaD X PRE-VmoH X}, then 
PRE is the null prefix: X is either the singular third-person, in which 
case you've got singular, third-person subject and singular, 
third-person object (null prefix) or you've got plural, third-person 
subject and plural, third-person object (null prefix).

You can't use this to say something like /I caused you to accept me/ 
because of the problem you're pointing out: /jIH/ can't be both subject 
and object (because there is no possible prefix for this combination, 
not even the null prefix).

Which is how we get to recasting. If something is possible to say only 
in the third person, that's a good sign to me that it could do with a 
bit of work, even if it's otherwise legal.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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