[tlhIngan Hol] “Some nights ago” / julwIj wov SoHbej

Daniel Dadap daniel at dadap.net
Wed Jun 13 07:34:30 PDT 2018

> On Jun 13, 2018, at 02:00, Rhona Fenwick <qeslagh at hotmail.com> wrote:
> jangpu' Daniel, jatlh:
> > Do you mind sharing the counterexample, if it’s not too much trouble,
> > and explaining how it’s problematic?
> The relevant example is from S26:
> DuraS tuq tlhIngan yejquv patlh luDub 'e' reH lunIDtaH DuraS be'nI'pu'
> lurSa' be'etor je.
> "The sisters of the House of Duras, Lursa and B'Etor, are constantly seeking
> a higher standing for the House of Duras within the Klingon High Council."
> The relevant part of the clause is {'e' reH lunIDtaH DuraS be'nI'pu'}, and the problematic aspect of it is that not only does the adverb follow the object {'e'}, but a verb governing {'e'} should also not take Type 7 suffixes.

Okay, thanks for sharing that. I’m willing to look past the the rules about word order and allowed suffixes being broken, since it doesn’t seem to affect the meaning. I see now that “problematic” refers to breaking established rules rather than being unclear in how to interpret the meaning. Nevertheless, I see no need to break those rules myself and hold up S26  (which I now understand to mean Skybox card number 26, I saw a lot of S# citations and didn’t understand what they were) as justification.

> taH:  
> > I think I can change this to:
> > chomuSHa' wa'logh 'e' Daja'qangpu'
> And here we run into the other problem from the very same SkyBox example. TKD section 6.2.5 notes that Type 7 suffixes are not possible on a main verb governing {'e'}.

Okay, now that I know that rule, I think I can just rephrase as a direct quotation:

wa'logh choja'pu', “bang, qamuSHa'qu'”
jIHvaD “not nuchev vay'” Daja' je.

My concern would be that I’m uncertain how clear the quotation aspect would come across in spoken/sung form, without punctuation.

> qay'be'qu'. And don't take it too much to heart. Using {wI-} in place of {DI-} in particular is a mistake that even highly experienced Klingonists still make from time to time.

Believe me when I say that I’m far from the point where I will take any criticism of my use of Klingon personally. :)

> I’m not certain
> > what you mean by a rhyming translation: could you please elaborate?
> Ah, that's my mistake. I was suggesting you have a shot at developing your Klingon rendition into a rhyming one following the original song, but I've never heard the full English lyrics, and was presuming from the chorus (whose lyrics I do know) that the second and fourth lines of each verse rhymed too. But although the second and third verses do have slant rhymes in this position ("same"/"day", "between"/"my dreams"), the first verse apparently has no rhyme at all ("arms"/"cried").

Oh, I didn’t realize you were referring to this very work. I thought perhaps there was some pool of texts that was wanting for rhyming translations that you were suggesting I could take a crack at.

> QeS 'utlh
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