[tlhIngan Hol] HovHom, HovHom, yIbochchu'

Daniel Dadap daniel at dadap.net
Sun Jun 10 17:27:05 PDT 2018

> On Jun 10, 2018, at 18:34, Alan Anderson <qunchuy at alcaco.net> wrote:
> Comments on vocabulary and grammar only:
>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 6:32 PM, Daniel Dadap <daniel at dadap.net> wrote:
>> HovHom, HovHom, yIbochchu'!
> {boch} has always struck me as referring to the reflective kind of shininess. I would say {wew} "glow" instead, unless you'd be happy with another repetition of {wov} "be light, bright".

Thanks, {wew} should work nicely. “Shiny” referring to reflectivity makes sense.

> Verbs of quality like {boch} and {wov} are usually not used in imperatives without the suffixes {-'egh} and {-moH}. In the interest of meter, I don't mind them being left off, but you're basically invoking poetic license in order to do it.

Okay, good to know. I think we can accommodate that without breaking meter by deleting one {HovHom}:

HovHom, yIwov'eghmoHchu'

Or if I understand correctly that {wew} is not a verb of quality, just substitute {wew} for {boch} in the original line.

>> nuq Dayugh 'e' vISIvqu'.
> "What you are" is not a question, so {nuq} is not appropriate. Find a way to use {-bogh} instead. For example: {Hap Dayughbogh vISIvqu'} "I very much wonder about the matter you consist of."

Thanks, that works well. (I also realize I mistranslated in my English translation; I was originally working with something like 'e' vIsov vIneH.)

>> vaj ram Hoch bIwov net Sov.
> {ram Hoch} is a period of time, but that's not how you used it. For "all night" you really ought to say {qaStaHvIS ram}. To make it fit the rhythm, perhaps {ram DawovmoHtaH net Sov}.

Thanks for the suggestion; that works well. Could you give an example of how to use {ram Hoch} correctly?

>> taw HurghDaq lengwI' Dutlho',
> {lengwI'} is the subject and needs to come last. This verse is going to need to be rearranged to make everything work together.

Oops, that was sloppy and certainly unintentional. You can tell I haven’t fully internalized OVS yet.

If the following sentence {Quchqu' ghaH bIwovchu'mo'} isn’t problematic, the fix could be as simple as:

taw HurghDaq Dutlho' lengwI',
Quchqu' ghaH bIwovchu'DI'.

>> chal SuD 'ej HurghDaq SoHtaH,
> You can say {SuD chal 'ej Hurgh}, but you can't use two adjectival verbs like that. You'd need to say {SuDbogh chal 'ej Hurghbogh}, or give one of the verbs a different primacy with {SuDbogh chal Hurgh} or {Hurghbogh chal SuD}.

Yeah, I kind of had a feeling that wouldn’t work. The sky can just be dark without also being SuD:

HovHom, chal HurghDaq SoHtaH

>> ram bIwov 'e' not Damev,
> There's a good argument for preferring the order {not 'e'} instead. (The canon counterexample has other problems that make it less compelling than it could be.)

Okay, another easy fix; thanks. Do you mind spelling out the argument in better detail, for my enlightenment?

> Your ability to hit the triple targets of meaning, rhyme, and meter is impressive. I almost regret breaking such good work by pointing out problems elsewhere.

Thanks, and have no regrets; this is exactly the sort of feedback I need to verify the accuracy of my mental model of the language. It’s easy to put back together after it’s broken; working within the constraints of those targets is part of what makes this so much fun.

I’m doing this mostly as a self-teaching exercise, and I fully expect to make a few mistakes as I push the boundaries of my understanding. I truly appreciate the micro-lessons on imperatives involving stative verbs, not being able to use question words as general pronoun-like things, two-verb colors, and placing temporal markers before the previous topic pronoun.

> -- ghunchu'wI'
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