[tlhIngan Hol] bIQ qoD Dujmaj SuD
sustel at trimboli.name
Tue Jun 5 08:03:44 PDT 2018
On 6/5/2018 10:24 AM, Daniel Dadap wrote:
> On Jun 5, 2018, at 08:30, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name
> <mailto:sustel at trimboli.name>> wrote:
>> On 6/4/2018 7:51 PM, Daniel Dadap wrote:
>>> I know that’s probably not accurate, but that’s how I usually try to
>>> figure whether or not I want a -Daq. In this sentence I’m trying to
>>> communicate that jul is the destination, and bIQ is where mave' is
>>> taking place, but if they both have -Daq, what prevents one from
>>> reading it as “on the sun in the water”? (i.e., the water contains a
>>> sun, and we are traveling with a purpose on that sun.)
>>> Would -vaD be a wrong suffix to distinguish the roles of bIQ and jul
>>> in this sentence? e.g.: bIQDaq julvaD mave'.
>> It would be wrong. *julvaD* means you're traveling for the sun's
>> benefit, or you're giving something to the sun. The song lyric
>> literally means traveling /toward/ the sun. That's *-Daq.*
>> As for /on the sun in the water,/ the only thing you can do about
>> that is reword. Klingon *-Daq* is a very general locative, and
>> usually doesn't let you distinguish between being in, on, at, or by
> Okay. I like “'ej bIQ'a'Daq jul wIjaH” as long as there’s nothing
> wrong with it grammatically. I realize the sun is not literally our
> final destination, but to me this communicates the sense of traveling
> towards it.
Dunno about rhyme, but you might be better served with *'ej bIQ'a'Daq
jul wIghoS.* The word *ghoS* has more to do with following a course than
does the word *jaH,* which seems to be purely about the motion.
>>> I like your suggestion (especially because rhyming “law''e'” with
>>> “je” instead of “tu'lu'” with “muchchoHlu'pu'” better matches the
>>> rhyme scheme of the Terran adaptation), but I would like another
>>> syllable or three; jIlma' chaH latlhpu' law''e'? (I’m not familiar
>>> with what rule allows 'e' on law' here; could you explain it please?)
>> When you link two nouns in a "to be" sentence, the final noun is the
>> topic and must have *-'e'* on it.
>> When you modify a noun with a verb of quality acting as an adjective,
>> any type 5 suffixes the noun might have get put on the verb instead.
>> *latlh'e'*/another (as topic)/ becomes *latlh law''e'*/many others
>> (as topic)./
>> (Also, I just realized it should be *jIlma',* not *jIlmaj.* Sorry,
>> Combining these two rules:
>> *jIlma' chaH latlh'e'
>> */Others are our neighbors./
>> *jIlma' chaH latlh law''e'
>> */Many others are our neighbors./
> Ahh, thanks for clarifying that. I hadn’t known that law' could be
> used as a noun, and was reading it as a stative-verb-as-adjective, and
> failing to understand how the topic marker could go on a verb.
> I guess in that case it’s ungrammatical to say latlhpu' law''e'? Or
> maybe it’s okay, with latlhpu' law' being a noun-noun? (I want the
> extra syllable, but can probably do without it.)
*law'* is a verb, not a noun. It's being used as a
"stative-verb-as-adjective," as you say. It's just a special rule of
adjectival verbs: when they modify a noun with a type 5 suffix, the
suffix migrates to the end of the verb. See TKD 4.4.
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