[tlhIngan Hol] Rovers and -Qo'

Felix Malmenbeck felixm at kth.se
Wed Feb 14 21:39:03 PST 2018

When using -Qo' to express refusal (rather than for a negative command), it makes as much sense to me as using -be'/-qu' after a volitional suffix: "I don't refuse to do it." / "I REFUSE to do it!"

I would probably understand (imperative suffix) + -Qo'be' as "Don't refuse!", rather than as actually negating a negative imperative.

-qu' makes more sense after a negative command: "DON'T do it!" Perhaps you'd say it if you had to repeat yourself (although I suspect at that point, jay' or some other curse would be more likely).

Parent: yIHotQo'! ("Don't touch that!")

(the child reaches for it)

Parent: Qo'! yIHotQo'qu'! ("No! DON'T touch that!")

I could see using -qu' on a type-9 suffix to emphasize a condition (Daleghchughqu' - "IF you see it", or perhaps even "IF AND ONLY IF you see it"), purpose or the like, though it does seem a bit unnatural to my ear; something you wouldn't hear very often.

Philosophers, poets and logicians might be interested in negating subordinate clause markers, too, but it's probably more a case of tlhach mu'mey than a part of everyday speech.

Mind, the fact that we haven't seen any of these in use does suggest none of these are all that common ... but then again, our corpus isn't large enough to consider a lack of evidence as evidence of absence.

tobbe'lu'chughbe' qItbe'.


From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org> on behalf of David Holt <kenjutsuka at live.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 06:12
To: tlhingan-hol at kli.org
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Rovers and -Qo'

I'm not really sure what a {-be'} or a {-qu'} would mean following {-Qo'} or one of the type 9 suffixes, but if you feel that doing so can improve a communication you are trying to do, try it out and see if others can understand what you are trying to say.


From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org> on behalf of demonchaux.aurelie <demonchaux.aurelie at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:03 PM
To: tlhingan-hol at kli.org
Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] Rovers and -Qo'

Hello tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'pu :)

I was wondering something about rovers:

can -Qo' be followed by -be' and/or -qu'? (Not -Ha' obviously)

  1.  Rovers [...] do not have a fixed position in relation to the other suffixes following a verb but, instead, can come just about anywhere except following a type 9 suffix. Their position is determined by the meaning intended (TKD 4.3)

  2.  Unlike -be' the position of -Qo' does not change: it occurs last, unless followed by a type 9 suffix. (TKD 4.3.)

Does the 2nd statement intend to exclude just the type 1 to 8 suffixes from following -Qo', or does it also ban other rovers (-be' and -qu') from coming after --Qo'?

Because it could be interesting, if it is allowed, to express various degrees of refusal through it:

leghQo' : he refuses to see him

(?) leghQo'qu' : he *absolutely* refuses to see him

(?) leghQo'be' : he does not refuse to see him

(?) leghQo'be'qu' : he really does not refuse to see him (perhaps it means he is eager to see him, and for this meaning we could use leghqangqu')

(?) leghQo'qu'be' : he does not refuse categorically to see him

Has this already been discussed somewhere else?

What do you think?


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