[tlhIngan Hol] The prefix trick and indefinite subjects

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Sat Dec 22 19:56:32 PST 2018

On 12/22/2018 9:01 PM, Daniel Dadap wrote:
> The original thing I was asking about was part of a relative clause so 
> I wanted to simplify the example but I guess I made it too simple and 
> omitted an actual indirect object which was the point of the prefix 
> trick. The clause was “Sep vIDellu'bogh” which I used in the sentence:
> pa' Sep'e' jInajtaHvIS vIDellu'bogh tu'lu'
> Over there there is a region that was described to me while I was dreaming
> (There are probably other problems with this sentence; I wasn’t sure 
> where to place the jInajtaHvIS, for example, which is also why I 
> wanted to simplify the example.)

Yes, the *jInajtaHvIS* makes it way too complicated... probably even 
without considering the prefix trick. It might make grammatical sense 
with the *jInajtaHvIS* between the *pa'* and *Sep'e'* or after the 
*vIDellu'bogh,* but at this point I'd be worried about the listener's 
ability to parse the nested clauses.

If we drop the dreaming bit for now, and show the sentence without the 
prefix trick, we have

    *pa' jIHvaD Sep Dellu'pu'bogh tu'lu'
    */The region which was described to me is thereabouts.
    /(Notice that the *-pu'* is required; the describing is already done.)

I don't see why the prefix trick wouldn't work here, again with the 
caveat that we've never seen the prefix trick on a verb with an 
indefinite subject:

    *pa' Sep vIDellu'pu'bogh tu'lu'
    */The region which was described to me is thereabouts./

If I had to put the dreaming back in, and if I had to keep it all in one 
sentence, I'd probably do it like this:

    *pa' Sep vIDellu'pu'bogh jInajtaHvIS tu'lu'
    */The region which was described to me while I was dreaming is

> I went with “muDelbogh vay'” since it didn’t affect syllable count or 
> the rhyme at the end of the line (rhyming with “jenqu'” in the 
> previous line) and the meter actually worked out better too that way.

I'm not going to mess with meter or rhyme.


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