[tlhIngan Hol] {neH} with SAO and indefinite subject

Daniel Dadap daniel at dadap.net
Sat Dec 8 10:42:33 PST 2018


> On Dec 8, 2018, at 12:28 PM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> 
> On 12/8/2018 1:13 PM, Daniel Dadap wrote:
>> Before I ask my main question, I wanted to confirm my understanding of something:
>> 
>> My understanding of the behavior of {neH} with a sentence as object has always been that there is an implicit {'e'} in there, and it isn’t wrong to make it explicit. For example, to say “they want the children to read those books”, one would typically say:
>> 
>> {paqmeyvetlh laD puqpu' luneH}
>> 
>> But it wouldn’t be wrong to say:
>> 
>> {paqmeyvetlh laD puqpu' 'e' luneH}
>> 
>> Is my understanding accurate? Or does {neH} really not take the pronoun {'e'} as an object, not even invisibly? Or do we just not know enough to be certain one way or another?
> The rules say "when the verb of the second sentence is neH want, neither 'e' nor net is used," not that the pronoun is invisible or implicit. We're not given a great deal of theory behind how it works, so it's possible there's something more complex going on, but until we have information to the contrary, you should assume it is what it says it is. Adding 'e' or net would be wrong.
> 

Oh. Yeah, there it is in black and white on page 66 of TKD. Sorry, I really should try opening a book before asking questions like that on the list.

> (The sole known exception is not a good data point, as it involves one Klingon using another Klingon's sentence as the first sentence in a sentence-as-object construction. It may be that in such a case not having something there is too much. We don't know how this exception works, so it's dangerous to base our understanding on it.
> 

Out of curiosity, do you mind quoting that exception?

> 
>> Regardless of the answer to the above, I was thinking recently about {neH} with SAO and an indefinite subject. Which of these is the right way to say “it is wanted that the children read those books”?
>> 
>> {paqmeyvetlh laD puqpu' net neH}
>> {paqmeyvetlh laD puqpu' neHlu'}
>> {paqmeyvetlh laD puqpu' 'e' neHlu'}
> The second one. paqmeyvetlh laD puqpu' neHlu' One wants the children to read those books.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> SuStel
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