[tlhIngan Hol] vengDaq, vengmeyDaq je

[Jeremy Silver]

On Sunday, 10 September 2017 20:03:30 BST SuStel wrote:
> On 9/10/2017 8:39 AM, Jeremy Silver wrote:
> > On Saturday, 9 September 2017 13:52:00 BST SuStel wrote:
> >> On 9/9/2017 4:31 AM, Jeremy Silver wrote:
> >>> On Friday, 8 September 2017 23:26:13 BST De'vID wrote:
> >>>> On 6 September 2017 at 15:15, Jeremy Silver<jp.silver at tiscali.co.uk>
> > 
> > wrote:
> >>>>> Still, on a related note, I've been having problems recently trying to
> >>>>> figure out a reasonable way, with or without {ngIq}, to say "atom by
> >>>>> atom
> >>>>> [something happens]" and "cell by cell [something else happens]".
> >>>> 
> >>>> I presume this has to do with this DSC promo?
> >>>> https://twitter.com/StarTrekNetflix/status/901134702622367748
> >>>> "Atom by atom, they will silence us. Cell by cell, our souls shall
> >>>> become theirs."
> >>> 
> >>> Indeed, for this exercise I think I settled on this version (which
> >>> omits
> >>> ngIq) for the whole promo text. Even after re-reading mayqel's thread
> >>> and
> >>> this one a few times, I'm/still/  not clear how to use ngIq for my own
> >>> purposes yet.
> >>> 
> >>> {nughoStaH chaH.
> >>> wa' HeySel ghIq latlh HeySel, nutammoH chaH.
> >>> wa' HanDI' ghIq latlh HanDI', qa'chaj moj qa'maj.
> >>> tlhIngan maHtaHmeH maghobnIS. potlhchu' meqvam.}
> >> 
> >> This doesn't work.*ghIq*  is an adverbial; it attaches to sentences, not
> >> nouns.
> > 
> > Good point, but I'm not too sure it's the atoms that are doing the
> > silencing.
> /They/ are doing the silencing. The atoms are being silenced. What else
> does /atom by atom, they will silence us/ mean?
> 
> > So how about this instead?:
> > 
> > {nughoStaH chaH.
> > latlh HeySel qa'taHvIS wa' HeySel, nutammoH chaH.
> 
> /While one atom replaces another atom, they silence us./
> 
> I have no idea what this means. I also don't like how *latlh* precedes
> *wa';* you haven't introduced the *wa'* yet that can have a *latlh.*
> 

Thanks for your further suggestions.

I think that neither of us really know what the original means as we're 
lacking a fair bit of context. But I'm going with the interpretation that the 
"they" which is approaching is the same "they" doing the silencing, and this 
"they" is not atoms or cells. I'll take a wild stab that it's some species, 
say Humans approaching, that will be causing some molecular/cellular 
alteration to change the look of the Klingon species.

I could swap the clauses to {wa' HeySel qa'taHvIS latlh HeySel}, and with this 
verb it could well work. But as I understand it, Klingon sentences are OVS, 
and {wa' HeySel} is the subject, is it not?


> > latlh HanDI' qa'taHvIS wa' HanDI', qa'chaj moj qa'maj.
> 
> /While one cell replaces another cell, our spirits become their spirits./
> 
> If this is supposed to suggest an agency by which our spirits become
> their spirits, it fails to do so. It only suggests simultaneity. One
> thing happens at the same time as another; one thing does not happen by
> means of the other.

As I interpret the original phrase, I believe simultaneity is all I need to 
suggest. We have nothing in the original, that I can tell, that suggests 
agency specific to the atoms or cells. It seems to be just events/mutation/
disease happening, but I am frequently wrong.