[tlhIngan Hol] ngIq (WAS: vengDaq, vengmeyDaq je)

[De'vID]

On Sep 6, 2017 19:51, "Brent Kesler" <brent.of.all.people at gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu> wrote:

> Some examples of {ngIq} for comparison:
>
> ngIq nuv luHoH
> they killed the warriors one by one. ('u'-OPERA)
>
> yerchajvo' Haw' qamchIynganpu' ngIq nuv luHoH
> The people of Qam-Chee, they fled their territory, and were killed one by
> one (PB)
>
> nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
> One by one Molor's scouts return (PB)
>
> ngIq raQvaD cha'maH vagh QaS yInob
> For each outpost pay 25 forces. (MKE)
>
> ngIq gholvaD vaghmaH QaS yInob
> Pay each player 50 forces. (MKE)
>
> ngIq gholvo' wa'maH QaS yItlhap
> Collect 10 forces from every player. (MKE)
>
> BTW notice the absence of {-taH} or {-qa'} on the verbs.
>


In these examples, "each" would make a good gloss for {ngIq}. But there are
other examples that don't fit that idea, also from paq'batlh.


I think the problem here is that you're trying to map {ngIq} into a single
English word or concept.

     ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej tIqDu' lel
     ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej quvqa'
     ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej rIn may'

     In one single move, he removed the hearts
     In one single move, he restored his honor
     In one single move, the battle was won

That makes the meaning of {ngIq} almost always ambiguous.


I disagree. It's fairly clear to me why the English translations are what
they are. There may be ambiguity in that we don't fully know how to extend
the use of {ngIq} *beyond* the examples, but I don't think the examples
taken together are ambiguous.

Why does {ngIq nuv luHoH} mean "They kill each person" instead of "They
kill a single person"?


Because {ngIq} always deals with a collection of things. If it meant "They
kill a single person", what happens to the others?

Why does {nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'} mean "one by one Molor's scouts
return" instead of "Molor's single scout returned alone"?


Same.

Why does {ngIq tonSaw' lo'} mean "In a single move" instead of "With each
move"?


It means something like "with one move out of a collection of moves". The
surrounding context makes it clear the translation should be "in a single
move" rather than "in each move".

I don't like that ambiguity, so I avoid {ngIq}.


Based on the canon examples, if you make a single statement with {ngIq
veng}, it means "in each city (out of a collection of cities)". If you make
a series of (structurally identical) statements with {ngIq veng}, you're
explicitly listing what's done "in a single city" (going through each city
in the collection). The ambiguity is in what happens if you use it in
another way (e.g., how similar do the list of sentences have to be for the
"single one" meaning?).

-- 
De'vID
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