[tlhIngan Hol] With "joq" - how do we choose the right verb prefix ?

[demonchaux.aurelie]

Thank you all for your replies and thoughts on this !



HIq qIj reghuluS 'Iw HIq ghap jab 



  They serve Black Ale or Regulan bloodwine. (CK)



{A B ghap jab} “they serve them” not {lujab} “they serve it”





This is a great example, and I think this gives us the solution, thank you for digging it up! 



I was convinced that if A and B were both singular, "A B ghap" would be considered singular when choosing the verb prefix, and that's why I thought joq might be singular in those cases, and I couldnt choose between singular or plural. But this proves the contrary !



So, to sum up, whether A and B are singular or plural, and whether we use je or ghap, A + B + je / ghap is always plural.



Logically, A + B + joq is thus also always  plural ! 



So the correct sentence in my example is: 

vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq DIghojnIS



tuQaHmo' Satlho' :)


Aurélie 
Envoyé depuis mon smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
-------- Message d'origine --------De : Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu> Date : 31/08/2017  20:08  (GMT+01:00) À : tlhingan-hol at kli.org Objet : Re: [tlhIngan Hol] With "joq" - how do we choose the right verb prefix ? 


I searched my notes for examples of the conjunctions {joq} and {ghap}  in a complete sentences…
 
joq                        or,  and/or (noun conj):




       ta'meyDaj boqawDI' SuHemjaj


           mu'meyDaj bojatlhDI' Suvaljaj

          not ta'meyDaj mu'meyDaj joq bolIjjaj




 


May you remember his deeds with pride,


   May you recite his words with wisdom,

   May they forever be unforgettable.  (PB)




 
Unfortunately the prefix {bo-} means “you (pl.) [do something to] him/her/it/them” so this is inconclusive.





{joq} was once apparently omitted/implied in SkyBox S21:
 
 qagh, ro'qegh'Iwchab, targh tIq Sop 'e' lungIl Humanpu' puS

  Few humans dare to eat gagh, rokeg blood pie, or heart of targ.  (S21)




ghap                     or,  either/or (noun conj):
 
  HIq qIj reghuluS 'Iw HIq ghap jab

  They serve Black Ale or Regulan bloodwine. (CK)




{A B ghap jab} “they serve them” not {lujab} “they serve it”
 
--

Voragh
 
 
From: nIqolay Q

Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 12:54 PM





I don't think the plurality of phrases with {joq} or {ghap} has ever been discussed. I don't know if there's any examples. My guess is that since {joq} also includes the idea of "and", it should be considered plural. But that's just a guess,
 and I have no idea what to do with {ghap}, or what to do with the broader question of unknown plurality. We may have to kick this one over to Maltz.

 

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Aurélie Demonchaux <demonchaux.aurelie at gmail.com> wrote:



While discussing on the "Learn Klingon" group on Facebook, we wondered how to choose the correct verb prefix when "joq" (and / or) is used in the object and / or subject of the sentence. 


 


If we have the structure: 


 


noun1 noun2 joq + verb


 


Do we consider that the object of the verb is singular or plural ?


 


Using an example sentence: We need to learn French and / or Klingon.


 


1/ vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq
wIghojnIS.


2/ vIraS Hol tlhIngan Hol joq
DIghojnIS


 


if it were just a "je" we'd use "DI-" without hesitating, or if it were a "ghap" we'd use "wI-", but with joq... ?


 


Has it already been discussed at some point what to do when you can't determine whether a verb's object / subject is singular or plural ?


 







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