[tlhIngan Hol] Translation help

[mayqel qunenoS]

SuStel:
> I strongly recommend trying to express yourself in Klingon before translating the words of others.

SuStel is definitely right.

Speaking from my own personal experience, another good idea would be
to write a few sentences with the word of the day, and post them here.

It is much easier for someone to help you, if you write just 3-5
sentences, than trying to translate an entire passage. If you do this
every day, you will be surprised by the things you will learn, and the
progress you will make.

~nIghma'

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 5:51 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> SuStel:
>> I strongly recommend trying to express yourself in Klingon before translating the words of others.
>
> SuStel is definitely right.
>
> Speaking from my own personal experience, another good idea would be
> to write a few sentences with the word of the day, and post them here.
>
> It is much easier for someone to help you, if you write just 3-5
> sentences, than trying to translate an entire passage. If you do this
> every day, you will be surprised by the things you will learn, and the
> progress you will make.
>
> ~nIghma'
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 4:51 PM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
>> On 10/19/2017 9:19 AM, De'vID wrote:
>>>
>>> “Laying Plans”
>>>
>>> chenmoH nabpu’
>>
>>
>> I can't parse this at all. Is {nab} intended to be a noun or verb here? What
>> is its relationship to the verb {chenmoH}?
>>
>>
>> Joseph is not considering the order of a basic Klingon sentence: OBJECT -
>> VERB - SUBJECT. He's applying suffixes more or less correctly but putting
>> the words together in English order. chenmoH make; nabpu' Joseph used the
>> wrong plural suffix here: use -mey for things that don't use language and
>> aren't body parts. nabmey plans.
>>
>> Putting this together in OVS order, we get nabmey chenmoH. BUT! We haven't
>> conjugated this; right now it says he/she/it/they make plans. If that's what
>> you're after, fair enough, but what you're probably saying is that plans are
>> made and you're not specifying who makes those plans. For that you need the
>> indefinite subject suffix, -lu': nabmey luchenmoHlu' plans are made; someone
>> makes plans.
>>
>> BUT AGAIN! Make plans is a very English way of saying this. I'm not sure if
>> we can even use chen to refer to abstract things taking form. Why not
>> simplify this? nablu' someone plans.
>>
>> You see now why translating is harder work than producing original thoughts.
>>
>>
>>> “1. Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State.”
>>>
>>>
>>> wa’. jatlh Sun’tlhu: <<veSQeD potlhqu’ wo’vaD>>.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Remember object verb subject. What is the subject of {potlhqu'}? What role
>> has {wo'vaD} play here?
>>
>>
>> Remember also that ' is a consonant, not punctuation. That ' in Sun'tlhu's
>> name isn't pronounceable, unless maybe you happen to hiccup while saying it.
>>
>>
>>> “2. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin.
>>> Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.”
>>>
>>>
>>> cha’. yIn Hegh je Soj ‘oH ‘ej QaDqu’ghach lujqu’ghach ghap Dev ‘oH.  QeD
>>> DabuSHa’be’qu’.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> "It is a matter of..." is an English expression. I feel using {Soj} follows
>> this a bit too closely. What does it *mean* to say something is a matter of
>> life and death? Express that.
>>
>>
>> I think yIn Hegh je Soj 'oH hits it on the nose and is quite good. This
>> isn't just an English expression; Klingon's idiomatic Soj matter, concern,
>> affair is exactly this.
>>
>>
>> I would also suggest to express using verbs the idea you're apparently
>> trying to express by using nouns with {-ghach}.
>>
>>
>> Agreed. You're sticking -qu' in there to satisfy the requirement that a
>> suffix come between the verb and -ghach, but you don't really mean them.
>>
>> Also, QaD normally means be dry; the meaning of be safe is slang. The style
>> of The Art of War is invariably made out to be formal and dignified, a style
>> not conducive to using slang.
>>
>> For non-slang alternatives, consider words like QobHa'ghach and Qanlu'.
>>
>>
>> Note that we have a word {taw} for "road".
>>
>> Is the last sentence intended to be an imperative? Right now, it just says
>> "You do *not* ignore this science" (not that you *shouldn't*).
>>
>>
>> Your last sentence also cuts out a lot of what the original is saying. If
>> you're going to translate, don't skip parts because they're hard.
>>
>> You've made a good start. I strongly recommend trying to express yourself in
>> Klingon before translating the words of others.
>>
>> --
>> SuStel
>> http://trimboli.name
>>
>>
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