[tlhIngan Hol] {net Sov} vs {'e' Sovlu'}

Steven Boozer sboozer at uchicago.edu
Thu Nov 30 12:25:42 PST 2017


Voragh:
>> However, the {'e' -lu'} pattern can indeed be used with verbs
>> other than {‘aq}.

nI'ghma :


Ø  This is new to me. I can't understand why on these examples the {'e' -lu'}
pattern is used, but I do remember that on numerous occasions on this
list, we have said (or I have been told) that it is not permissible.

Well I don’t think it’s exactly “not permissible”, just not recommended.  Using {net} is simpler and easier to understand.


Ø  Do the examples that you posted, mean that we can freely use {'e' -lu'} ?

I wouldn’t go crazy over-using it.  It’s hardly ever used by Okrand, but it does exist.


Ø  As far as the {-lu' net} is concerned, I see no problem with it since it doesn't contradict any rule.

I just wanted to give all the known variations since there are so few of them.

--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons


On Nov 30, 2017 10:00 PM, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer at uchicago.edu<mailto:sboozer at uchicago.edu>> wrote:
From: mayqel qunenoS
>> {'e' -lu'} is not a permissible construction, unless the {-lu'} is on the verb {'aq}.
  SIS 'e' 'aqlu', javmaH vatlhvI' DIch
  It is predicted it will rain, 60% certainty. (qep'a' 2017)
 However, the {'e' -lu'} pattern can indeed be used with verbs other than {‘aq}.  E.g.
   Qang QanmeH yan 'ISletlh Damuv 'e' wIvlu'.
    You are chosen to serve on the Yan-Isleth and protect the chancellor. MKE
 We’ve also seen the pattern {-lu' 'e' -lu'} used:
   yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'
   Victory must be earned. TKW
  yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'
  Survival must be earned. TKW
  DIvI' rojmab qep ghanglu' 'e' nIDlu', 'ach taH qep.
  Despite efforts to halt them, peace talks with Federation continue. MKE
And we’ve even seen the pattern {-lu' net}:
   vImuHlu' net wuqHa'!
  My death sentence was commuted! (ENT "Affliction")
--
Voragh

From: mayqel qunenoS
{'e' -lu'} is not a permissible construction, unless the {-lu'} is on the verb {'aq}.

Always, as soon as you find yourself wanting to say {yadda yadda 'e' *whatever*lu'} you should instead write {yadda yadda net whatever}

~ nI'ghma

On Nov 30, 2017 9:12 PM, "Aurélie Demonchaux" <demonchaux.aurelie at gmail.com<mailto:demonchaux.aurelie at gmail.com>> wrote:
Today I am trying to grasp the difference between {net + verb} and {'e' + verb-lu'}

The way I understand it is, for example with "Sov"

net Sov = it is common knowledge that
'e' Sovlu' = someone (indefinite) knows that

Thus:
qama'pu' DIHoHbe' net Sov = It is common knowledge that we don't kill prisoners
qama'pu' DIHoHbe' 'e' Sovlu' = It is known / someone knows that we don't kill prisoners

Similarly with chaw' :
qama'pu' DIHoH net chaw'be' = we are not allowed to kill prisoners
qama'pu' DIHoH 'e' chaw'lu'be' = someone does not allow us to kill prisoners

Am I getting it right ?

Thanks in advance!
Aurélie
ghItlhjaj
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