[tlhIngan Hol] The Second Coming

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Thu Jun 8 07:44:07 PDT 2017

On 6/8/2017 12:02 AM, nIqolay Q wrote:
> I have attempted a translation of another classical poem. This time, 
> it's "The Second Coming", by William Butler Yeats. The version of the 
> poem I used can be found here: 
> https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/43290
> cha'DIch ghoS [1]
> [1] I'm basing this on the controversial canon from the SkyBox card 
> where {wa'DIch} was used as an adverbial for "the first time". I 
> wanted to keep the idea of "second" in the translation, because of the 
> religious connotations of the "second coming", so I didn't use 
> {ghoSqa'}. I didn't use something like {ghoSpu'ghach cha'DIch} since I 
> wanted to avoid {-ghach} as much as possible (though I still ended up 
> using it elsewhere). {cha'logh ghoS} suggests both comings, not just 
> the second one. So I'm rolling the dice on the adverbial {-DIch}.

I don't remember the SkyBox card that uses an ordinal as an adverbial. 
Which one is it?

/paq'batlh/ uses ordinals as adverbials, but the meaning is a step in a 

    *wa'DIch Hegh moratlh
    */First, Morath fell
    *ghIq Hegh qanjIt
    */Then, Kanjit fell/

*cha'DIch ghoS* would therefore mean something like, /secondly, he 
goes,/ as if this is the second thing he did.

The best translation may be *pawpu'ghach cha'DIch*/second arrival./ 
There's no reason to avoid a perfectly good suffix like *-ghach* if 
you're using it correctly. The advice to avoid it applies only when 
there is a tendency to overuse it. If you absolutely have to use 
*cha'DIch* to mean a second something, then you also have to apply it to 
a noun normally. *-ghach* gives you that.

I chose *paw* instead of *ghoS* because /coming (n) /means /approach, 
arrival, advent,/ which is exactly what *paw* means. *ghoS* means a 
bunch of other things you don't want.

> Sachbogh ghoDaq tlhe'taHqu' 'oH.
> wamwI' QoylaHbe' wammeH bo'Degh.
> Sab Dochmey. ngaDlaHbe'taH botlh.
> qo'Daq chutmey Hutlhbogh nugh'e' 'uchHa'lu'.
> bIQ'a''e' HurghmoHbogh 'Iw 'uchHa'lu' 'ej Dat
> chuntaHghach tay SoD bIQ'a'.
> pagh Har nIvqu'wI'pu' 'ach
> pe'vIl nongqu' QIvqu'wI'pu'.
> tugh vay' 'anglu'bej.
> tugh cha'DIch ghoSbej.

You can't escape that this means /Soon, as a second step, he surely 
goes./ If *cha'DIch* absolutely must be there, you need *tugh qaS 
pawpu'ghach cha'DIch.*

> cha'DIch ghoS! mu'meyvetlh vIjatlhpu'DI'
> SIbI' mInDu'wIj Suj
> mIllogh'a''e' Delbogh qo' qa'.

If Yeats felt it necessary to use a Latin term in an English poem, 
there's no reason for you to use anything but Latin either.

I don't think you want *-'a'* for /vast;/ that's more like *tInqu'. 
*Replace *mIllogh'a''e' Delbogh qo' qa'* with *mIllogh tInqu' Delbogh 
*/Spiritus Mundi./ Stick an *-'e'* on *tInqu'* if you're not concerned 
with any kind of meter and you think you need to disambiguate the head noun.

> Deb voghDaq QIt 'uSDu'Daj vIHmoH
> vIghro''a' porgh loD nach je ghajbogh tu'qom.

I recommend putting a comma between *porgh* and *loD* so the reader 
knows where one noun phrase ends and the other begins. It took me a 
while to figure it out.

> pagh lu'agh mInDu'Daj 'ej vupbe' bIH. jul lurur.
> Dechbogh retlhDajDaq jIr Deb bo'Deghmey QeH QIbmey.
> pumqa' QIb 'ach
> cha'SaD DIS poH QongwI' let
> najHa'moHpu' Qombogh ghu QongDaq DaH 'e' vISov. [2]
> [2] {Qom} isn't the right word here, but earthquakes at least fit the 
> apocalyptic tone, and there's not much else to use. Maybe one of the 
> airplane movement verbs?

I think the word *Dav* /sway/ can be used outside of aircraft. At any 
rate, its explanation by Maltz doesn't say it's specific to aircraft. 
It's not quite /rock,/ but it's as close as we've got.

I don't understand what /stony sleep/ means in the original, but I'm not 
sure that *QongwI' let*/hard sleeper/ fits it. (When *let* says it means 
/hard (like a stone),/ that doesn't mean *let* means /stone-like./ It's 
disambiguating from /hard (difficult)./)

> 'ej tagha' repDaj lop Ha'DIbaH naQbe'
> 'ej boghmeH betle'HemDaq yItlI'. [3]
> [3] I would appreciate any suggestions on how to better translate 
> "slouch". {yIt} just doesn't seem to cut it.

A literal translation might be *yItlI' 'ej yepHa'lI'**.* Or maybe add 
*SIbI'Ha' */eventually/ to the start of the sentence to suggest that the 
walking isn't especially motivated or brisk. Maybe also add *QIt* 
/slowly/ along with it. Something like *'ej SIbI'Ha' boghmeH 
betle'HemDaq QIt yItlI'.*


*majQa'!* This is the sort of translation I like: you've done a close 
reading of the original and remained sensitive to what the poet was 
trying to convey, rather than just convert the words grammatically. You 
tried to replicate the feel of the poem in flow and concept without 
being ungrammatical with a call-out to poetic license as an excuse for 
things you couldn't make work.


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