[tlhIngan Hol] Quvar, QISmaS cake Davutta''a'

Lieven levinius at gmx.de
Wed Jan 4 10:11:16 PST 2017

Hi Michael,

I am not this lists admin, but I want to answer anyway for several 
reasons; I was part of the discussion, one of the experts you talk 
about, and I've been on this list for almost twenty years now. And after 
all, I still admire how quickly you learned Klingon. I still remember 
when we first met and had interesting conversations, even off list.

First of all, please don't be discouraged so quickly. After all, 
learning Klingon should be fun and if you throw it away, it will not 
only be our time that is lost, it's yours as well. Don't end up as "the 
one who left the list angrily"

About your comments, I'll answer shortly, because you are a bit wrong 
with some of them.

(my mail software lost the quotes marks, so I'll use quotes myself)

You ask
"Because I will ask, what beginner ? The zero beginners who regularly ..."

Did you know that there are about 290 members on this mailing list? Not 
all learners are writting. It has always been a fact that there are so 
called lurkers who learn just by watching what happens. I know many 
klingonists who NEVER write a thing here.

You write:
1. When “experts” utilize punctuation, but nevertheless write long and
complex sentences do you tell them “back off, you are confusing
beginners ?”

No, we don't, because the list is made not ONLY for beginners. People 
can write about what they want, in Klingon. (pointing at te FAQ again). 
But I would also tell experts to use punctiuation, because any text 
without looks horrible, even for experts. I don't want to guess where a 
sentence ends, also not in english.

You write:
 > When “experts” transliterate, do you tell them “don’t do it” ?

Yes, we do! It's in the list's FAQ.

You write:
 > Because here, you function as a closely-knit group of individuals,

Well, actually, those closely-knit members usually do follow those rules.

There is one reason to explain why these people are so strict on their 
rules. It goes back to a ime when we did not have as many canon examples 
as today. These "rules" or "conventions" or whatever you call them were 
set up to avoid that people start to use their own Klingon. Back then, 
students - and also experts - tried to stick words and nouns together 
like they wanted, creating absolute no-gos. They would stick noun 
suffixes to verbs, just because they thought it makes sense. That's why 
we are so strict on following the rules. That's why SuStel keeps saying 
"we just don't know if xyz is correct just because you think it is.". We 
don't want to stop students from leraning Klingon, but there has to be 
some guidance. That's what this list is for, and that's the goal of the KLI.


I'll let others answer more. I just want to tell you that I will not be 
happy when you leave the list. You made it alive again, and asked very 
interesting quetions from a differetn point of view. If you leave the 
list, I hope you keep learning and using Klingon, so we can meet at 
other places.


Lieven L. Litaer
aka Quvar valer 'utlh
Grammarian of the KLI

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