[tlhIngan Hol] Quvar, QISmaS cake Davutta''a'

mayqel qunenoS mihkoun at gmail.com
Wed Jan 4 03:07:29 PST 2017


since this will probably be the last post I am writing here, I will
address it to you since you are the moderator of this list.

First, it is truly amusing to be listening all the time “the beginner
expects this, or the beginner expects that”. Because I will ask, what
beginner ? The zero beginners who regularly write here, or the zero
beginners who rushed to introduce themselves here a few days ago when
lieven asked them to ?

Also, it is truly remarkable the fact, that you speak in the name of a
supposed number of beginners, without ever any beginner speaking for
himself. Only Brian Cote wrote at this thread, and nowhere at the few
posts I wrote, which didn’t use punctuation, did any beginner

So, now I will ask you:

1. When “experts” utilize punctuation, but nevertheless write long and
complex sentences do you tell them “back off, you are confusing
beginners ?”
2. When “experts” transliterate, do you tell them “don’t do it” ?

And the answer is no. Do you know why ?

Because here, you function as a closely-knit group of individuals, who
know each other a very long time, and of course look the other way
when someone breaks the rules, which you are so much fond of. But when
an outsider (such as me), someone who doesn’t belong in your tight
circle begins to differentiate himself, then you turn against him,
speaking to him as an inferior person who has to comply to your
standards, as if this is some kind of “simon says” game.

There is an english word, which describes exactly what’s going on
here: “patronize”. Defined as: “treat with an apparent kindness which
betrays a feeling of superiority”. Perhaps at the next qep’a’, your
community should ask okrand for a klingon word for this term, because
it surely describes a lot of you here.

You asked me why I feel the need to spite beginners. however you are
wrong; It is not my intention to make the learning process difficult
for a beginner. But it is my intention to refuse to kneel to
“experts”, who are obviously used to always getting their own way.
“Experts” who celebrate klingon’s uniqueness and its not reliance on
punctuation, to the newly arrived beginner, but when this same
beginner becomes able not to use it, they say “don’t do it”, breaking
their own rules.

“Experts” who obviously believe they are the emperors of this
language, sitting on a throne dictating do’s and don’ts. “Experts” who
can’t realize that when someone accepts them as teachers then:

1. He is honoring them
2. He becomes a living person into whom their knowledge will be
“poured”, thus eventually becoming the living continuation of the
language they have dedicated a large part of their lives into.

You should ask okrand for another word: “to drive someone away from an
art/skill/language”, because obviously there are a lot of people here,
who are described by that term too..

Do you know qurgh, the future of klingon ? What will it be in 40-50
years from now ?

There will be no “experts”, at least not the way you perceive them to
be here/today. Because people who will be having the determination to
learn, will have been systematically driven away. Why ? Because
someone who is willing to put the effort in order to learn, isn’t a
weak person who will tolerate being pushed around by “experts”. So,
eventually there will be only people able to write at a mere 20-30
percent of the tkd.

Are you here “experts of klingon” ? Yes.. But you can’t realize that a
master without a student who is serious about what he does, a master
without a living person who will continue his skill, is a master of

Anyway, have it your way..

I came here in order to learn klingon, because as I said in the past,
I had a serious purpose for which I needed it. That purpose I
accomplished. The klingon I have learnt, is more than sufficient for
the purpose which I need it.

It is sad though, that all the time you invested, all the effort you
have made, and all the energy you spent, counted for nothing. Because
I may have accomplished my goal of learning the amount of klingon
which I wanted for my purpose, but the community lost a person who
would be actually serious about this language.

But, since this is obviously what you want, then I will be happy to
oblige. In a few days I will unsubscribe, so we can all be happy


On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:29 PM, Lieven <levinius at gmx.de> wrote:
> Am 03.01.2017 um 19:28 schrieb qurgh lungqIj:
>> Skipping punctuation won't help beginners, since most beginners expect
>> it and most Klingon texts use them. Everyone on this list conformed to
>> the list standards while they helped teach you Klingon.
> Besides, maybe one needs to be reminded of this mailing list FAQ, which
> explains exactly this problem. Indeed, it is not a rule per se, but a
> "convention" is some kind of agreement which has been suggested for this
> list many years go, and any new user of the list is recommened to read it.
> See it on the wiki, or read the original FAQ (which I adapted to the wiki
> because it was not up to date any more)
> "This is the FAQ for the Klingon Mailing List, tlhIngan-Hol. "
> http://higbee.cots.net/Holtej/klingon/faq.htm
> 2.11 Can we use punctuation when writing Klingon?
> "Over time, we have generally settled on these practices on the mailing
> list, not as a matter of policy, but as a convention.  Posts are not
> strictly held to the conventions shown here, but if you use this system you
> will be more readily understood. "
> Extracted to
> http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Punctuation
> and
> http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/MailingListFAQ
> --
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
> Grammarian of the KLI
> http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
> http://www.klingonwiki.net
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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