[tlhIngan Hol] use of {'el} with {-moH}

[mayqel qunenoS]

jIH:
> Is the {pa'Daq dog lu'elmoH} correct for "they caused the dog to enter the room" ?
voragh:
> Not if you mean *{pa’Daq ‘el} “enter the room” then {‘el} “enter” already implies {-Daq}
voragh:
> If you’re asking about {DOG lu’elmoH}, I’ll let someone else comment.

Well, it's a little bit of both, which confuse me; both the need to
place the {-Daq} on the {pa'}, as well as the {DOG lu’elmoH}.

I remembered that the {-Daq} isn't required with the {'el}, and
initially thought of writing just {pa' dog lu'elmoH}. However I was
wondering.. Is the {-Daq} to be omitted before the {'el}, only on a
noun which directly precedes it, or is it to be omitted too if the
noun is at the beginning of the sentence ?

And of course, it was the {DOG lu’elmoH} too, which I didn't know if
it was actually correct.

However, after reading the following:

voragh:
>  pa'Daq mo’ DOG lu'elmoH
> in the room, they caused the dog to enter the cage

Then I guess that the {dog lu'elmoH} is indeed correct for "they
caused the dog to enter", and that for the intended meaning ""they
caused the dog to enter the room", I only needed to write {pa' dog
lu'elmoH}.

Are my conclusions correct ?

qunnoq

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Qunnoq:
>
>>> Is the {pa'Daq dog lu'elmoH} correct for "they caused the dog to enter
>>> the room" ?
>
>
>
> Not if you mean *{pa’Daq ‘el} “enter the room” then {‘el} “enter” already
> implies {-Daq}:
>
>
>
> mIch 'elpu' jay'
> They've entered the @#$% sector! (TKD)
>
> Hevetlh wIghoSchugh veH tIn wI'el maH'e'
> that course will take *us* into the [Great] Barrier as well! (ST5)
>
> HIq DaSammeH tach yI'el
>
> To find ale, go into a bar. (TKW)
>
> tach vI'el, HItlhej
>
> Let's go to the pub. (RT)
>
> neHmaH Da'el net tu'
>
> Caught breaching the Neutral Zone. (MKE)
>
>
> ghe'tor 'el qeylIS
>
> Kahless enters Gre'thor   (PB)
>
> ghe'tor vegh Duj  / Suto'vo'qor lojmItmey 'el Duj
>
> The barge went through Gre'thor into the gates of Sto-vo-kor  (PB)
>
>
> pa' 'elDI' Duj 'Iw HIq pIw qagh pIw je lularghlu'chu'
>
> The smell of bloodwine and gagh filled the barge upon entering. (PB)
>
> ghe'tor 'el nuv ghe'torvo' tlheD ghaH
>     'e' tu'be'chugh neH veqlargh
>     ghe'torvo' cheghlaH nuvvam
>
> One can only return from this Underworld,
>    If Fek'lhr does not notice one
>    Entering or leaving Gre'thor.  (PB)
>
>
>
> qa' qo' chu' 'el Duj
> The barge entered a new underworld  (PB)
>
>
>
> ghe'tor Da'elta'
>     'ej lojmItmeyvo' Damejta'
>     'ach bIrIQbe'mo' SoH neH
>
> Since you are the only one
>     Who ever entered Gre'thor,
>     And left the gates unharmed,  (PB)
>
>
>
> vavlI' loDnI'lI' je DaSammeH
>     ghe'tor Da'elmo' 'ej Damejmo'
>     QeHchoH qa'pu' vaj lubIjlu'
>
> They will pay for the anger
>     You caused by entering and leaving,
>     Gre'thor in search of your kin.  (PB)
>
>
>
> If you want to say something else happened there, use {-Daq} as a place
> stamp to set the scene:
>
>
>
>  pa'Daq mo’ DOG lu'elmoH
>
>  in the room, they caused the dog to enter the cage
>
>
>
> i.e. everyone – both the people and the dog -- were already in the room when
> the action occurred.
>
>
>
> If you’re asking about {DOG lu’elmoH}, I’ll let someone else comment.
>
>
>
> --
> Voragh
>
>
>
>
>
>
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