[tlhIngan Hol] Hoch HochHom and pronouns

[SuStel]

On 8/11/2017 1:38 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> I wonder whether the following are correct.
>
> wa' jaj maHegh Hoch
> one day we will all die
>
> wa' jaj maHegh HochHom
> one day most of us will die
>
> wa' jaj maHegh Hoch maH
> one day all we will die
>
> wa' jaj maHegh maH Hoch
> one day all of us will die
>
> wa' jaj maHegh HochHom maH
> one day we almost all will die
>
> wa' jaj maHegh maH HochHom
> one day most of us will die
>
> wa' jaj Hegh Hoch chaH
> one day all they will die
>
> wa' jaj Hegh chaH Hoch
> one day all of them will die
>
> wa' jaj Hegh HochHom chaH
> one day they almost all will die
>
> wa' jaj Hegh chaH HochHom
> one day most of them will die
>
> And I wonder whether there are canon examples of {Hoch} and/or 
> {HochHom} used as subjects of a verb with the prefix {ma-}.
>
> And whether there are canon examples of {Hoch} and/or {HochHom} placed 
> before, or after pronouns.

People try to do these things all the time, because they're trying to 
reproduce the expressions used by English or some other language. But 
most of these violate the rule of *rom*, that verb prefixes must agree 
with subjects and objects. Yes, sometimes those rules are violated by 
Klingons under certain circumstances, but we humans should be making up 
our own circumstances.

*wa' jaj maHegh Hoch*/
one day we will all die
/

*Hoch* is a third-person noun, not a first-person noun, so the verb 
prefix must agree with a third-person subject. Say either *wa' jaj 
maHegh*/one day we will die/ or *wa' jaj Hegh Hoch*/one day everyone 
will die./ This goes for *HochHom* variants too.

While this is not positive evidence, I will point out that /paq'batlh/ has

    *naDev Sughompu'
         'ej Qo'noS SuvwI'pu' Hem tlhIH
         qeylIS tIghmey'e'
    DaH tIQoy...*

    /Hear now,
         All of you here,
         Proud warriors of Kronos
    The ways of Kahless.../

The translator declined to say *Hoch tlhIH* or *tlhIH Hoch* for /all of 
you./

*wa' jaj maHegh Hoch maH/wa' jaj maHegh maH Hoch*
/one day all we will die/

Assuming either of *Hoch maH* or *maH Hoch *is valid for /all of us/ (as 
opposed to /some of us/ or/none of us/), then this works. But I don't 
think we know that those are valid. Likewise with *HochHom* variants.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20170811/7cb4165f/attachment-0002.htm>