[tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: matlhHa'

[mayqel qunenoS]

SuStel
> The difference is that vay' indicates a definite "someone," while -lu' might
> be used when that someone is more abstract (though it doesn't necessarily mean that)

Thinking this over today with a clear mind, I continue being unable to
grasp how {vay'} is definite while {-lu'} is abstract. Both refer to
an unknown person. Unknown, by definition, is abstract and
indefinite..

qunnoq


On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:27 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> maj. I accept your explanation, and I will update/correct my notes/data
> base.
>
> SuStel, jIHvaD pabvam DaQIjta'mo' qatlho'.
>
> qunnoq
> ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta'
>
>
> On 19 Sep 2016 8:03 p.m., "SuStel" <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/19/2016 12:18 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>>
>> SuStel:
>>
>> But I can tell you that -lu' does not mean "someone does something to
>> someone."
>> It means "someone or something unspecified or abstract does something."
>> Maybe
>> it's done to something, maybe not.
>>
>> This confuses me greatly;
>>
>> I read again section 4.2.5. of tkd, and yes the first thing it says is
>> "This suffix is used to indicate that the subject is unknown,
>> indefinite, and/or general".
>>
>> On the other hand though, immediately it continues by saying: "Since
>> the subject is always the same (that is, it is always unstated), the
>> pronominal prefixes (section 4.1.1) are used in a different way". And
>> proceeds by giving examples of the kind "someone/something does
>> something to someone/something".
>>
>> Even the example {Soplu'} is given as "it is eaten". Of course it
>> could be also taken as "someone eats it"; but, how can someone write
>> {Soplu'} in order to say "someone eats (period)" ?
>>
>> If I wrote Sop HoD, does it mean the captain eats or the captain eats it?
>> It means both! You know that.
>>
>> So why should it trouble you that Soplu' means both one eats and one eats
>> it?
>>
>> Perhaps you will answer by saying "even if you say someone eats
>> (period), then again *that* someone is eating something so we
>> essentially say the same thing".
>>
>> ok.. perhaps I can see your point; but my problem is that the tkd does
>> not have a single example like {yItlu'} for "someone is walking", or
>> {neplu'} for "someone is lying" etc. So, how can we accept such a
>> usage of {-lu'} ?
>>
>> How about quSDaq ba'lu''a' Is this seat taken? in the appendix?
>>
>> SuStel:
>>
>> The difference is that vay' indicates a definite "someone,"
>> while -lu' might be used when that someone is more abstract
>>
>> I can't understand this either; how is {lu'} abstract and {vay'}
>> definite ? Both mean someone. Someone unknown/unspecified. I can't see
>> any difference between them.
>>
>> vay' is a subject; -lu' is just the lack of a subject. -lu' means
>> "Obviously something or someone does this action, but I'm not gonna say what
>> it is."
>>
>> --
>> SuStel
>> http://trimboli.name
>>
>>
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>