[tlhIngan Hol] [KLBC] Can you use several adjective-verbs for the same noun?

[Aurélie Demonchaux]

Thanks all for your reply! (Hoch tujangta’mo’ qatlho’!)


*@**Quvar valer 'utlh*

> Savan!
>
> Your message marked as KLBC is directed to one person only, so it may be
> more correct to say {qavan}, but that's really nitpicking ;-)

jIyaj, Dochmey mach jISaH je!



> What I actually wanted to say is that you speak so much Klingon already,
> that you are not a true "beginner".

qatlho’ :) ’ach Dochmey law’ tu’lu’ ’e’ wej vIghojta’.



> PS: if possible, deactivate autoformatting for apostrophes.

qaghwI' vIvevmo’, DaH <Alt + 0146> vIlo’ ’e’ vIwaH.



*@Voragh:*

qu’! pab lo’mey cho’aghta’mo’ qatlho’ :)



*@’arHa:*

> “jaqbogh ’ach maw’bogh ’ej wochbogh yaS Qup vIlegh.”
> I think this is alright but why do it that way? -> Consider: {{yaS Qup
> vIlegh. jaq, woch... 'ach maw'qu'!}}

Yes it makes sense too. But in this case, wouldn’t it shift the focus of
the text?


1/ “jaqbogh ’ach maw’bogh ’ej wochbogh yaS Qup vIlegh”

I feel that here the focus of the sentence is more on the description of
the officer that I’m seeing, with his 1st three attributes <jaq>, <maw’>,
<woch> on an equal footing, and <Qup> being considered the most essential
attribute, since it’s directly added after <yaS>.


We can show the highlight as below:

<I see a *young officer*, (who is) tall, bold but crazy.>


The way I interpret things (and correct me if I’m wrong) is that, in
Klingon, if we put a normal adjective just after the noun, then it would be
considered as the noun’s main / defining attribute, and the relative
clauses would then describe secondary attributes.


Following this assumption, if we shuffle it around a bit, we could insist
more on the fact that the main attribute of the officer is, for example,
being “tall” instead of “young”:

“jaqbogh ’ach maw’bogh ’ej Qupbogh yaS woch vIlegh”

<I see a *tall officer*, (who is) young, bold but crazy.>


or if we want to put absolutely all attributes on an equal footing, then we
use –bogh everywhere, so the main object of the sentence is no longer a
tall or young officer (who is bold but crazy…), but just “an officer” (who
is young, tall etc):

“Qupbogh ’ej wochbogh ’ej jaqbogh ’ach maw’bogh yaS vIlegh”

<I see a young, tall, bold but crazy *officer*.>



2/ yaS Qup vIlegh. jaq, woch... 'ach maw'qu'

Here there are 2 statements so each statement highlights a different focus
point.


-        yaS Qup vIlegh : focus on “I see an officer” (the “core” part of
the action, with no descriptive element)
-        jaq, woch... 'ach maw'qu': the description of the officer that I
see, with an emphasis on “… but he is really crazy”


So it seems to bring a different nuance from what I'd suggested.



Sorry if I over-analyze it though! (I like to go into the details, and this
is also really important in translation) Let me know what you think :)


Also, next time, maybe it’s best if I don’t use the KLBC anymore, so
everyone is free to join the conversation directly if they want.


~mughwI'

2016-09-30 0:35 GMT+02:00 John R. Harness <cartweel at gmail.com>:

> Hi all --
>
> Lieven:
> "And regarding your question, you already answered it yourself - but I'll
> let the BG tell you why."
>
> Actually I don't know why, other than that's how people do it. Maybe
> because it starts to produce parsing errors?
>
> mughwI':
> “jaqbogh ‘ach maw’bogh ‘ej wochbogh yaS Qup vIlegh.”
>
> I think this is alright but why do it that way? -> Consider: {{yaS Qup
> vIlegh. jaq, woch... 'ach maw'qu'!}}
>
> 'arHa
>
> --
>
> Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/>
> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Lieven:
>> > And regarding your question, you already answered it yourself - but I'll
>> > let the BG tell you why.
>>
>> Aurélie Demonchaux:
>> >> Is there a canon reference somewhere listing several adjectives
>> >> linked to the same noun? As in:
>>
>> While we're waiting for the BG here are the references you requested:
>>
>>   romuluSngan Sambogh 'ej HoHbogh nejwI'
>>   Romulan hunter-killer probe (KCD)
>>
>>   SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh
>>   The tea that is {SuD} and light. (KGT)
>>    (i.e. light green tea)
>>
>>   Suto'vo'qor botlhDaq
>>     pe'vIl joqchu'taH
>>     quvbogh 'ej valbogh tIqDu' tIQ
>>   [translation unavailable] (PB)
>>
>>
>> This last example is controversial so I wouldn't advise using it:
>>
>>   yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI'
>>     Say'moHchu' may' 'Iw
>>   The blood of battle washes clean
>>     the warrior brave and true. (Anthem)
>>
>> It's the only known example of the pattern {X-bogh Y-bogh je NOUN} --
>> possibly because it's a song lyric and the translation had to fit the meter.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Voragh
>> tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'
>> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>>
>>
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>
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