[tlhIngan Hol] jeS

[De'vID]

On 20 October 2016 at 17:42, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 10/20/2016 11:27 AM, De'vID wrote:
>
> On 20 October 2016 at 17:12, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
> This appears to be another exception to the general rule: "Generally, when a
> verb describing a state of being... is used in the imperative form, the
> suffixes -’egh (reflexive suffix) and -moH (“cause”) are used as well..."

De'vID:
> While {Dach} is a "be something" verb, is it a "state of being"? It
> seems somehow different than verbs like {tuj} or {taD}.

SuStel:
> Is "being absent" a state of being? Seems so to me.

I agree that it is, but it's not as clear cut a case as something like
"be hot". A state of being like being hot depends only on the subject,
whereas something like "be absent" seems to be deictic, i.e., one can
only be absent *from something else*.

However, if someone said {yIHop'eghmoH}, I would easily understand
that as a command to be far away *from the speaker*. And, clearly, in
{qaStaHvIS wanI'vam yIDachQo'}, the being-absent is in reference to
{wanI'}.

SuStel:
> If the line were
> qaStaHvIS wanI'vam yIDach'eghmoHQo' it would seem to work just as well.

I think that sentence has a slightly different meaning than what's
intended, though. It means "Don't cause yourself to be absent", which
misses the case where you might be absent through circumstances you
didn't cause. What you really want is "Case yourself not to be
absent", something like *{yIDachbe'eghmoH} (which is illegal because
{-be'} doesn't work with imperatives). {yIDachQo'}, on the other hand,
has the intended meaning.

> Where is the line between a state of being and not a state of being? Or
> perhaps the negative -Qo' makes the rule not operative because you're not
> commanding a state of being (the negative yIDachQo' versus the positive
> yISaH'eghmoH)?

There are different negations of an imperative: don't do something, do
the opposite-of-something, undo-something that was previously done.
Perhaps {yIDach'eghmoHQo'}, {yIDachQo'}, and {yIDachHa'} cover these
cases, respectively.

-- 
De'vID