[tlhIngan Hol] [English] Using "pong" as a verb to say "my name is..." ?

[mayqel qunenoS]

jIH:
> if I read the {Quvar vIponglu'}, I would
> understand that "someone calls me Quvar"
ghItlhta' ghunchu'wI':
> You apparently still think {-lu'} is a replacement for using {vay'}.
taHta' ghunchu'wI':
> The exact translation of {vIponglu'} is closer to "someone or
> something unspecified names me". What you proposed is instead an exact
> translation of {...mupong vay'}

I remember clearly the distinction between {-lu'} and {vay'}, however
I chose to give the translation by the use of the word "someone",
because that is the word that the tkd uses.

Aurélie Demonchaux:
> can we also say: Quvar vIponglu’ - “I am called Quvar”?
ghunchu'wI':
> That works fine, though some people consider it extremely informal
> usage.

I disagree. Even with the vaguest of meanings the {-lu'} is able to
provide, then again this talks of an unspecified someONE. The question
however asks for "how does EVERYONE call me".

If I heard the {Quvar vIponglu’}, I would be left to wonder whether
the speaker refers to an unspecified someone and that's that, or
whether he implies that *I* can actually be included in the context of
that someone too. Granted, if someone asks "what's your name" and you
reply "someone unspecified calls me bugs bunny", then obviously you're
telling him "call me bugs bunny too".

However, to talk about "what is being implied and understood at the
actual moment of the conversation" is one thing; and to talk about
"the exact and unambiguous meaning of a sentence" is another.

So, because of this reason, I believe that the canon way of replying
by saying "jIHvaD Quvar lupong", is by far the way to go. Now, yes,
perhaps someone will say that even now, this talks of a group of
"they"; and perhaps "there is another a group which calls me
differently". But I believe this is too much of a nitpicking..

I can't actually believe I'm writting this, but I finally found a
piece of canon which makes me happy, and I wouldn't change for
anything even if I could !

voragh will be happy ! hehehe !

qunnoq

On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 6:26 AM, Alan Anderson <qunchuy at alcaco.net> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 8:47 AM, Aurélie Demonchaux
> <demonchaux.aurelie at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But since in this example the person being called is “me”, and "Quvar" is
>> only what I'm called, then instead of using < jIHvaD Quvar ponglu’ > can we
>> also say:
>>
>> < Quvar vIponglu’ > - “I am called Quvar”?
>>
>> Kind of like the “prefix trick” I read about elsewhere on the Klingonwiki?
>
> That works fine, though some people consider it extremely informal
> usage. It is *precisely* the prefix trick, with the verb prefix
> indicating what we'd call in English an indirect object instead of the
> direct object.
>
> Note that it's only the English translation here which has passive
> voice. In Klingon, it's just an indefinite subject. Many occurrences
> of the {-lu'} suffix can be translated with passive voice, but not
> all.
>
>> Thus, in Klingon, can we use a similar structure?
>> < Quvar jIpong’egh > -- I call myself Quvar
>
> It is understandable, but I won't call it grammatically correct, and I
> would avoid it.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 12:31 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don't take me seriously, but if I read the {Quvar vIponglu'}, I would
>> understand that "someone calls me Quvar"; this would raise the ambiguity
>> that only "that someone" calls me Quvar, while others may call me
>> differently.
>
> You apparently still think {-lu'} is a replacement for using {vay'}.
> In {vIponglu'}, there is no "that someone". The subject is vague and
> unspecified, and it might as well not even exist.
>
>> Also keep in mind, that the exact translation of {Quvar vIponglu'}, isn't
>> "I'm called Quvar". It is rather "someone calls me Quvar". Klingon doesn't
>> have a passive voice..
>
> The exact translation of {vIponglu'} is closer to "someone or
> something unspecified names me". What you proposed is instead an exact
> translation of {...mupong vay'}.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI'
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