[tlhIngan Hol] Expressing "must"

[mayqel qunenoS]

SuStel:
> Here's a better way: vIghro' qab SoHmo' qaqotlh net raD because you are a bad cat, I am compelled to tickle you.

{net raD} is beautiful. I'll definitely be using it in the future !

lieven:
> Was it not you who said two days ago that you need to scramble the english words in your brain to get one idea?

Yes indeed.. However the english meanings we need to scramble, in
order to *feel* a single klingon word, must be the correct ones.

Take the {taH} fiasco, as it occured on the "why do we fall" thread.
Because some time ago, I scrambled in my mind along with the
legitimate meanings of {taH} an invalid one, I used it the wrong way.
And if ghunchu'wI', hadn't correct me, I would still be using it the
wrong way.

The problem with {-nIS}, is that not all klingonists accept that it
possesses the "must" meaning too. So I think, -it's just my personal
view on the matter- that in order to be able to understand each other
100% of the time, and at a 100% of the times, it is preferable to
refrain from using {-nIS} where the actual meaning is "must".

Perhaps, this is a way too strict interpretation of this suffix, and
kahless knows in the past I had quite a problem accepting way too
strict interpretations of grammar/vocabulary. But eventually I
realized, that "being strict" is necessary in order to be able to
understand each other while we are using the warrior's tongue.

After all, I feel that the concept of "must" is better expressed with
the alternate ways already described, than through the {-nIS}.

qunnoH jan puqloD

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 12:40 AM, Lieven <levinius at gmx.de> wrote:
> Am 14.11.2016 um 22:58 schrieb SuStel:
>>
>> But there /is/ a distinction between being required to do something and
>> having a need to do something. It is not at all clear to me that Klingon
>> *-nIS* covers both.
>
>
> I only see that canon examples sometimes use "must" and sometimes "need".
> Maybe it's me again proving my lack of english knowledge that you see more
> than I do? Or is this up to personal interpretation?
>
> {bIleSnIS}
> "You need a rest"
>
> {ghob tIvnISbe'lu'}
> "One need not enjoy virtue"
>
> {mataHmeH maSachnIS}
> "To survive, we must expand"
>
> {nIteb SuvnIS DevwI'}
> "A leader must stand alone."
>
> {pIpyuS pach DaSop DaneHchugh, pIpyuS puS DaghornIS}
> "If you want to eat pipius claw, you'll have to break a few pipiuses"
>
> need... must... have to... To me, it seems very clear that {-nIS} covers all
> of that.
>
> If something is definitely "required" add a phrase with {poQ}.
>
>
> --
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
> Grammarian of the KLI
> http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
> http://www.klingonwiki.net
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