[tlhIngan Hol] Peace.. No peace..

[mayqel qunenoS]

SuStel:
> nuq wIta' boneH?
> Okrand has done this, in TalkNow!: nuq Datlhutlh DaneH what do you want to drink?
> This isn't necessarily license to use any question-as-object, but it seems that simple
> substitutions like this work.

how do we define "simple" ? where does the simple stop and the complex
begins ? what do you mean by "simple substitutions" ?

ghunchu'wI':
> If a Question As Object actually asks a question, it is not usually a problem.

hmm.. this is interesting. but again the problem (for me) is how to
define the "If a Question As Object actually asks a question". This
sounds more as something that the reader is expecting/knowing in
advance, rather that a QAO unambiguously being translated as a QAO and
nothing else.

As weird as this may sound, I can't learn grammar; never could..
grammar terms confuse me. So, let me try to make a rule out of this
and correct me if I'm wrong:

SuStel's {nuq wIta' boneH} and 'oqranD {nuq Datlhutlh DaneH}, have the
following structure: the object of the {neH} is a question, and the
answer to that question can be placed as an object to the {neH}.

So, if

a. the intention of a QAO is to actually ask a question
b. its answer can be the object of whatever follows it (the sentence
after the {'e'} or {neH})
c. the reader knows that our intention is to actually ask a question

then we could indeed have QAO's.

So, in the original post could I have written: {chay' tlhIHvaD mavang
boneH} for "how do you want us to act ?"

If my conclusions are correct, then it is not a matter of complexity
of the question that precedes the {'e'} or {neH}; it is rather a
matter of the reader knowing in advance that we're indeed asking a
question. however, since each klingon passage addresses people who
actually know correct klingon, then that's a given.

Now, let me ask you something else;

Suppose I write:

{chay' tlhIHvaD mavang? 'e' yIngu'}
how do you want us to act ? specify it !
or
{chay' tlhIHvaD mavang? maHvaD 'e' yIngu'}
how do you want us to act ? for us you specify it !

would these be acceptable ?

Anthony Appleyard
> (1) I don't know the answer to the question *who* took my chocolate.
> (2) You must learn the answer to the question *how* to prepare dinner for an admiral.
> (3) That bird sings the answer to the question *what* he hears.

I can understand from these examples, what it is we need to avoid in
klingon; thanks ! And I tried reading the wikipedia article too,
however as soon as my mind comes across grammar terms, it shuts down !
it is as janeway HoD never wanted to be involved in temporal
anomalies. (although finally she managed to use them rather well; so,
there is some hope for me too.. hehehe !)

qunnoH jan puqloD

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Anthony Appleyard
<a.appleyard at btinternet.com> wrote:
> (1) I don't know the answer to the question *who* took my chocolate.
> (2) You must learn the answer to the question *how* to prepare dinner for an
> admiral.
> (3) That bird sings the answer to the question *what* he hears.
>
> Try with this insertion. (1) and (2) make sense (apart from sounding
> officialese or interrogationish), so they each contain a "question as
> object", i.e. an indirect question.
>
> (3) makes less sense, so "what he hears" is a relative clause used as a
> noun.
>
> See
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_clause#Interrogative_content_clauses
>
> ----Original message----
> From : qunchuy at alcaco.net
> Date : 27/11/2016 - 23:27 (GMTST)
> To : tlhingan-hol at kli.org
> Subject : Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Peace.. No peace..
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 8:45 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Obviously this means "what do you want us to do"; but isn't this a
>> question as object ?
>
> The standard objection to a "question as object" is when it tries to
> translate an English relative pronoun using a Klingon question word:
> - I don't know *who* took my chocolate.
> - You must learn *how* to prepare dinner for an admiral.
> - That bird sings *what* he hears.
> None of these fits the grammar of a Sentence As Object.
>
> If a Question As Object actually asks a question, it is not usually a
> problem.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI'
>
>
>
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