[tlhIngan Hol] What exactly does the {'ej} connect ?

[mayqel qunenoS]

andre muller:
> nouns with relative clauses

What is a "noun with relative clause" ? Could you write an example ?

andre muller:
> Note, that {'ej} can also connect 2 relative clauses:
> (X-bogh 'ej Y-bogh Z = a Z which is X and Y), although I cannot find the example right now.

Perhaps it is {SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh}, but I don't remember the source..

qunnoH jan puqloD

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:42 PM, André Müller <esperantist at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that it's better to remember that {'ej} connects clauses, not just
> sentences. The two parts ending in {-taHvIS} are not relative clauses, but
> temporal clauses ("while..."), they could also be called converbs ("-ing").
>
> Linguistically speaking, it is the best to remember that {je} connects noun
> phrases (so not just nouns, but also nouns with relative clauses, nouns with
> adjectives, pronouns, etc.), and {'ej} connects everything else (though not
> everything).
>
> We have to remember that MO didn't write TKD for a linguistic audience and
> that he didn't always use extremely precise unambiguous terminology. So when
> he says sentences in this case, he might actually mean clauses, or verbs, or
> verbal phrases. Canon examples show when {'ej} is used.
>
> Note, that {'ej} can also connect 2 relative clauses: (X-bogh 'ej Y-bogh Z =
> a Z which is X and Y), although I cannot find the example right now.
>
> - André
>
> 2016-11-15 13:51 GMT+01:00 mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>:
>>
>> hmm.. I see..
>>
>> so, at the sentence {jIyIttaHvIS 'ej jISoptaHvIS, vIghro' vIgho'}, the
>> {'ej} *does* connect two sentences:
>>
>> sentence one: {jIyIt}
>> sentence two: {jISop}
>>
>> the {-taHvIS} just creates relative clauses out of these sentences. right
>> ?
>>
>> qunnoH
>> ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'
>>
>>
>> On 15 Nov 2016 1:29 pm, "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 15 November 2016 at 12:18, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > De'vID;
>>> >> Note the part that says {lengtaHvIS... 'ej charghtaSvIS}.
>>> >
>>> > maj. this answers my question, and shows that the {'ej} is indeed able
>>> > to join two "parts of a sentence" (I don't know how else to call
>>> > them).
>>>
>>> Subordinate clauses. See TKD 6.2.2.
>>>
>>> > and -correct me if I'm wrong-, according to this canon example we
>>> > could write too: {qaleghmeH 'ej qa'uchmeH, jIlengta'} for "in order to
>>> > see you and in order to hold you, I traveled". Also, we could write
>>> > {qaleghDI' 'ej qa'uchDI' jIQuchchoH} for "as soon as I saw you and as
>>> > soon as I held you, I became happy"
>>>
>>> Correct.
>>>
>>> > however, this does contradict the "strict description" of {'ej}, that
>>> > "it is used to join sentences". Unless of course, what I've been
>>> > calling "parts of a sentence" are considered to be true sentences..
>>>
>>> You're thinking about this the wrong way.
>>>
>>> {'ej} *is* joining two sentence: {loghDaq leng} and {qo'mey Sar chargh}.
>>>
>>> By applying {-taHvIS} to the verb of a sentence, it becomes a
>>> subordinate clause. And what's the verb of the compound sentence
>>> {loghDaq leng 'ej qo'mey Sar chargh}? It has two verbs: {leng} and
>>> {chargh}.
>>>
>>> There's no contradiction here. There's an unstated (and I think pretty
>>> intuitive) rule that if a sentence is compound, the verb suffixes
>>> apply to all the relevant verbs.
>>>
>>> --
>>> De'vID
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
>>> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
>>> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
>> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
>> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>