[tlhIngan Hol] Disturbing irregularities

Thu Jun 23 12:05:38 PDT 2016

The way I see it, to translate "I am John" you have to have three elements:
I, John, and something that connects them. John is a noun. I is a
verb/noun. jIH is the only way to translate "I" without a separate verb, so
it is the subject AND verb, leaving "John" only one place to be: before
jIH: John jIH. We already have {tlhIngan jIH, tlhIngan maH}, and this is no
different.

There's a logical distinction here, too, that English rarely makes outside
of "Alice in Wonderland", namely that a person isn't his name. Lojban
requires this distinction, but elsewhere it's rare. So saying "I am [name]"
([pong] jIH) is kind of odd, even if it's the normal way of saying what
one's name is.

lay'tel SIvten

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 12:54 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:

> > There's no problem in saying {mayqel jIH}  "I am Michael"
> > Next, {SoH 'Iv} equals to {'Iv SoH}, both words can act as the verb.
>
> ok, I came back..
>
> if I write {'elaDya'ngan jIH}, this can only mean "I am (a) greek",
> right ? So, how come if I write {mayqel jIH}, this can mean "I am
> michael' ? even if we take into account, that klingon does not have
> "a/the", then again the meaning can only mean "I am a michael".
>
> as I understand , the subject is defined as "one who is, or one who
> does" ; and since we use OVS, then how can we place the "one who is,
> or one who does", before the verb ?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 7:22 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> > jIHvaD Sujangta'mo', Satlho'.
> > thank you all for replying.
> >
> > qawHaqwIjDaq, 'oqranD mu'tlhegh ghom vIghItlhqa'.
> > I re-wrote 'oqranD message at my data banks.
> >
> > mIv Hurgh
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
> >> Other examples of "action” – which as SuStel pointed out is not the
> same as
> >> movement --  “in a direction away from the noun suffixed with {-vo’}":
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  naDevvo' jIleghlaHchu'be'
> >>
> >>   I can't see well from here. CK
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  chaq SoHvo' vay' vIje' vIneH
> >>
> >>   [Maybe I'd like to buy something from you.] PK
> >>
> >>  betleHvo' qotar mInDu' mIghDaq boch 'otlh
> >>
> >>   Light reflects off the bat'leth into Fek'lhr's
> >>
> >>    evil eyes. PB [sic! for {veqlargh mInDu'}]
> >>
> >> Another having to do with transmitting messages:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  HoD, yo'SeH yaHnIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH
> >>
> >>   [Captain, we are receiving a priority message from
> >>
> >>    (Fleet) Operations Command.] (ST5 notes)
> >>
> >> … and yet another from the very same “Message to Kronos”:
> >>
> >>  ghe'naQ Daqvo' QInvam wIlab.
> >>
> >>   We will place a homing device transmitting this
> >>
> >>    message at the site of the opera. ('U'-MTK)
> >>
> >> {lab} “transmit data (away from a place)” already has an element of
> >> direction, but away from which place?  {ghe’naQ Daqvo’} “from the site
> of
> >> the opera”.  (Okrand chose to ignore the bit about placing a homing
> device;
> >> interested Klingons are perfectly capable of homing in on the signal
> without
> >> being prompted.  Consider it translator’s license.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Voragh
> >>
> >> tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'
> >>
> >> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org] On
> Behalf Of
> >> SuStel
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:06 AM
> >>
> >> On 6/21/2016 3:50 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> >>
> >> 1.  {tera'vo' SarI'} "I hail you from Earth".
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The way I understand {-vo'}, it is used to denote "movement taking
> >>
> >> place away from somewhere". However, in this sentence, the meaning is
> >>
> >> rather "I'm at earth, and from here I'm communicating". Perhaps, one
> >>
> >> could say that "the thing moving away from earth is the message". But
> >>
> >> in that case, I would be expecting to see "from earth I'm sending this
> >>
> >> message". Not "from earth I hail you".
> >>
> >> "This suffix [-vo'] is similar to -Daq but is used only when action is
> in a
> >> direction away from the noun suffixed with -vo'."
> >>
> >> It doesn't say there has to be literal movement, and it doesn't say the
> >> subject or object have to be moving away from something, just that the
> >> "action" is "in a direction away from." In Okrand's sentence, the
> action of
> >> hailing is being directed away from Earth.
> >>
> >> There is a similar sentence in Conversational Klingon: pa'vo' pagh
> leghlu'
> >> the room has no view (literally, from the room, one sees nothing). The
> >> action of seeing is being directed away from the room.
> >>
> >> Because irregularities like the aforementioned ones confuse me, I
> >>
> >> chose to delete the "message from kronos", from my data banks.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Keep it. Aside from the rest of the good grammar, it's useful to keep
> >> examples of Okrand's mistakes, if only to convince Worshipers at the
> >> Almighty Knees of Okrand that his every utterance is not holy writ.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> SuStel
> >>
> >> http://trimboli.name
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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