[tlhIngan-Hol] A question on {ngIq}

Mon Jun 6 09:19:52 PDT 2016

It's worth noting that - if I recall correctly - the translation of {ngIq} as "singular one" is not by word of god (or Maltz), but rather an extrapolation by a Klingon-speaker based on his/her reading of the paq'batlh.
As I recall, this was one of the qep'a' attendees who helped proof-read the paq'batlh, and he/she was reporting from memory.

Personally, weighing the number of examples, I get the impression that "each" or "one by one" should be the primary translation; the idea of "singular one" only appears in one canto of paq'batlh, while it the idea of "each" or "one by one" appears in two separate cantos and also in Klingon Monopoly.

I think one possibility is that Marc interpreted "In one move he X:ed, in one move he Y:ed, in one move he Z:ed and in one move he W:ed" as referring to four separate moves, thus motivating the use of the newly coined word {ngIq}.

Another possibility is that the repetition of {ngIq} is to be regarded as poetic, and that the "in one single move" interpretation comes from repetition.

...or, most tantalizingly, it may be from some dual meaning that doesn't make any sense to us, but makes perfect sense to native Klingon-speakers.

________________________________________
From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org> on behalf of mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2016 18:04
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan-Hol] A question on {ngIq}

Thank you voragh for replying ; comments follow :

> ngIq nuv luHoH
> they killed the warriors one by one.

This sentence is a perfect example to describe my confusion on {ngIq}
; I can't understand why the translation is given as "they killed the
warriors one by one", and not as "they killed a single warrior".

> ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej tIqDu' lel
> ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej quvqa'
> ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej rIn may'
> In one single move, he removed the hearts,
> In one single move, he restored his honor,
> In one single move, the battle was done.

Here I understand the "one single move" translation, over the "one by
one", because the latter makes no sense.

> ngIq tonSaw' lo' SaD law' San chenmoH qeylIS wej
> boghbogh nuvpu' San chenmoH
> In one single move, Kahless decided the fate of
> thousands, and those to come.

Same here too.

> nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
> One by one Molor's scouts return

Why "one by one" and not "a single scout of Molor returned alone" ?

> ngIq raQ - 150 QaS
> outposts cost 150 [forces] each

Why {ngIq raQ}, and not {Hoch raQ} ? Why the {ngIq raQ} is given as
"each outpost" instead of "a single outpost" ?

> ngIq raQ - 200 QaS, mon - 200 QaS loS raQmey je
> Outposts cost 200 [forces] each; capitals, 200 [forces]
> each plus 4 outposts.

Same here too.

> ngIq raQvaD cha'maH vagh QaS yInob
> For each outpost pay 25 forces.

Same here too ; why "for each outpost", and not "for a single outpost" ?

> ngIq gholvaD vaghmaH QaS yInob
> Pay each player 50 forces.

Same comments too.

> ngIq gholvo' wa'maH QaS yItlhap
> Collect 10 forces from every player.

..and again the same.

Now, ok ; I can leave with the fact that in the given translations
"each" and "single", seemingly are used in a random and apparently
interchangeable way.

But I really do have a problem - a major problem - with the sentences :

> nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
> One by one Molor's scouts return.
> ngIq nuv luHoH
> they killed the warriors one by one.

Is there a rule here I'm missing ? Why, why, why "one by one" and not
"a single one" ?

And to repeat my original question :

If I wanted to write :

"We destroyed his birds of prey one by one", then what should I write ?

ngIq toQDujmeyDaj DIQaw'ta' ?
or
ngIq toQDujmeyDaj wIQaw'ta' ?

or maybe something else ?

mayqel qunnoQ

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 4:51 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer at uchicago.edu> wrote:
> To get the discussion started, here are the examples I know of:
>
> ngIq nuv luHoH
> they killed the warriors one by one. ('U'-OPERA)
>
> ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej tIqDu' lel
>   ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej quvqa'
>   ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej rIn may'
> In one single move, he removed the hearts,
>   In one single move, he restored his honor,
>   In one single move, the battle was done. PB
>
> ngIq tonSaw' lo' SaD law' San chenmoH qeylIS wej
>  boghbogh nuvpu' San chenmoH
> In one single move, Kahless decided the fate of
>  thousands, and those to come.  PB
>
> nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
> One by one Molor's scouts return PB
>
> ngIq raQ - 150 QaS
> outposts cost 150 [forces] each MKE (= Monopoly)
>
> ngIq raQ - 200 QaS, mon - 200 QaS loS raQmey je
> Outposts cost 200 [forces] each; capitals, 200 [forces]
>  each plus 4 outposts. MKE
>
> ngIq raQvaD cha'maH vagh QaS yInob
> For each outpost pay 25 forces. MKE
>
> ngIq gholvaD vaghmaH QaS yInob
> Pay each player 50 forces. MKE
>
> ngIq gholvo' wa'maH QaS yItlhap
> Collect 10 forces from every player. MKE
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a'
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org] On Behalf
>> Of mayqel qunenoS
>> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 7:45 AM
>>
>> Recently I run into the spatial anomaly of {ngIq} ; so, I am sending this
>> distress call, in order to overcome this difficulty. Any help from
>> warbirds nearby, will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> First of all let me write the definition :
>>
>> {ngIq} a single one, each one
>>
>> According to qep'a' 2011 : This noun indicates that (1) a single thing is
>> being considered apart from others, or (2) that a sequence of identical
>> things is considered one after another.
>>
>> My question is this :
>>
>> How do we actually use the {ngIq}, in order to achieve the (1), or (2)
>> meaning ?
>>
>> For example in {Hoch}, we have various possibilities, depending on whether
>> the noun which follows is singular or plural. But what's the case with
>> {ngIq} ?
>>
>> If I write :
>>
>> ngIq mu'tlhegh vIghItlhta'.
>> this means "I wrote a single sentence" right ?
>>
>> but if I wanted to write :
>>
>> "We destroyed his birds of prey one by one", then what would I do ?
>>
>> perhaps :
>>
>> ngIq toQDujmeyDaj DIQaw'ta' ?
>> or
>> ngIq toQDujmeyDaj wIQaw'ta' ?
>>
>> or maybe something else ?
>>
>> Can someone shed some light on this ?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> qunnoq HoD
>> _______________________________________________
>> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
>> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
>> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol at lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org