[tlhIngan-Hol] A question on {ngIq}

[qurgh lungqIj]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 9:44 AM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > {ngIq naH} - "Each fruit (in a collection of fruit)"
> > {ngIq naH vIlarghpu' 'ej ghIq naH vIparHa'bogh vISoppu'} - "I sniffed
> each
> > fruit, and then I ate the fruit I liked"
>
> The implication is that you sniffed each one individually, apart from
> the others.
>

That's what I was thinking. I sniff each one (one at a time), and when I'm
done I eat the one I liked the smell of.


> > {ngIq nuH} - "A single weapon (from a collection of weapons)"
> > {Hoch jaghpu'lI' HoHmeH ngIq nuH lo'} - "In order to kill all his
> enemies,
> > he used each weapon"
>
> This suggests he used each weapon in turn, as opposed to using each of
> the weapons, perhaps together or in combination.
>

Again that's what I was going for. He took each weapon he owned, one at a
time, and killed someone with it. Maybe he had a stack of knives that could
only be used once.

This meaning for {ngIq} makes perfect sense to me (I almost wrote the
foreach comparison myself in an earlier email, but decided against it, so
I'm glad someone else sees it that way).

Now onto the confusing passage....


>
> > On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 12:04 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> > ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej tIqDu' lel
> >> > ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej quvqa'
> >> > ngIq tonSaw' lo' 'ej rIn may'
> >> > In one single move, he removed the hearts,
> >> > In one single move, he restored his honor,
> >> > In one single move, the battle was done.
> >>
> >> Here I understand the "one single move" translation, over the "one by
> >> one", because the latter makes no sense.
> >>
> >
> > I see {tonSaw'} as a collection of moves, so Kahless is using each single
> > move to do the actions.
>
> I believe {tonSaw'} is a single move, either in a game or a fight. To
> me, the above reads unambiguously that the multiple sentences are
> referring to the same one move, i.e., in one action, Kahless
> simultaneously removed Molor's hearts, restored his honour, and
> finished the battle.
>
> Does anyone read this as three separate moves?
>

I see what you're saying about Kahless's actions, based on the English. In
one move Kahless removed the hearts, restored his honor, and the battle was
done... not "in a single move he removed the heart, in another single move
he restored his honor and in another single move the battle was done"
(implying everyone died after that last move). My understanding of the
Klingon clouded my reading of the English.

I've come to a different understanding of {tonSaw'}, so I'm going to focus
on that for a minute:

Are you saying that {tonSaw'} is the name for the "move" action itself, and
not the name for the collection of "moves" one can do in general? EG In
Street fighter, my character knows a bunch of "moves", but pushing the
button just does one "move" at a time, so the character doesn't know a
bunch of {tonSaw'mey}, he just makes one {tonSaw'} after another when you
push the buttons? Moving a piece in Chess could be considered a {tonSaw'}?
I was always under the impression that {tonSaw'} was the name of all the
different techniques within a martial art, so {moQbara'} contains specific
{tonSaw'mey} that Klingons would learn and use in a fight. Kahless would
have known hundreds of {tonSaw'mey}.

If {tonSaw'} refers to the move action, then Kahless only used one move in
the fight, and the array of {tonSaw'} would only have 1 item in it, leading
to {ngIq tonSaw'} meaning "a single move" (and then repeating that phrase
would tie actions together because it's all happening while the same single
move happens).

However, what if the noun following {ngIq} could be a collection or a
single item, or a collection that I'm only talking about one item from, how
do we differentiate between the two intended meanings? Does {ngIq vIghro'
vISay'moH} mean "I clean a single cat" or "I clean each cat"?

qurgh
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