[tlhIngan Hol] The unforgivable sin

[Steven Boozer]

qunnoq:
>> I didn't notice it. So, to say in klingon "I drink two cups of
>> coffee" gives the impression that someone is drinking the cups 
>> and not the coffee ?

ghunchu'wI':
> I don't know of an example that tells us how to quantify coffee. It could
> be the way you said it, {cha' qa'vIn HIvje'} "two coffee's glasses." Or it
> could be the other way around, {cha' HIvje' qa'vIn} "two glasses' coffee".
> Or it might be {qa'vIn cha' HIvje'} "two glasses of coffee".

  qa'vIn (cha' HIvje') vItlhutlh.
  I drank coffee (two cups/mugs).

Precise, but awkward.
 
> Or it could be that {HIvje'} is only the container and doesn't make sense
> as a measurement in Klingon. It's hard to find an English example that
> carries that feeling -- maybe "three wrappers of candy".

(KGT 98f):  Since certain drinks are typically associated with certain containers, saying the type of drink plus {HIvje'} indicates the type of cup or glass as well ... {qa'vIn HIvje'} ("coffee mug")

If you're drinking tea there is {Dargh HIvje'} - or the older/upper-class word {tu'lum} "teacup" - which may be a standard size (who knows with Klingons?):

(KGT 96):  Tea may be made either in a teapot (runpI') or directly in the teacup (Dargh HIvje', or, if not a cup specifically designed for drinking tea, just HIvje')." 

We also have the measurement verb {muq} "have a volume of":

  qa'vIn vItlhutlh; cha (qa'vIn) HIvje' muq 'oH.
  I drank coffee; it had a volume of two (coffee) mugs.

  cha HIvje' muqbogh (qa'vIn) qa'vIn'e' vItlhutlh.
  I drank coffee having a volume of two (coffee) mugs.

> Perhaps to indicate an amount of drink one must talk of {tlho'ren}
> instead, though the correct order of words is still uncertain.

(st.k 10/22/1997):  The only unit of volume I'm aware of is {tlho'ren}. I'm not exactly sure how much one {tlho'ren} is, but it seems to be in the quart/liter range.

  qa'vIn vItlhutlh; bID tlho'ren muq 'oH.
  I drank a half {tlho'ren} of coffee.
  "I drank coffee; it had a volume of half a {tlho'ren}."

  bID tlho'ren muqbogh qa'vIn'e' vItlhutlh.
  I drank a half {tlho'ren} of coffee.
  "I drank coffee having a volume of half a {tlho'ren}."

Which is a lot of coffee... but who talks that way?  Well, maybe a Klingon-speaking Vulcan. <g>  


-- Voragh