[tlhIngan Hol] Who shall call them from the twilight ?

[SuStel]

Thanks. I searched my email archive for that one, but couldn't find it.

On 12/14/2016 12:13 PM, Steven Boozer wrote:
>
> SuStel is using the method for translating “which/what is X?” that 
> Okrand introduced on the old msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand BBS.  
> FYI here is the relevant part of his post (unformatted):
>
> ************************************************************************
>
> From: MarcOkrand  <…>
>
> Newsgroups: msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand
>
> Date: December 12, 1996
>
> Subject: What do you think?
>
>    [. . . .]
>
> (2) You suggested translating "What is your favorite month?" as:
>
> *jarlIj qaq nuq*?
>
> This one's a little easier to deal with.  Your sentence literally means
>
> "What is your preferable month?"  The basic syntax is correct. Question
>
> words (in this case, *nuq* "what?") function the same way pronouns do in
>
> questions with "to be" in the English translations.  Thus, the question
>
> *yIH nuq*? "What is a tribble?" is exactly parallel the statement *yIH 
> 'oH*
>
> "It is a tribble" (where *yIH *is "tribble" and *'oH *is "it").  The 
> answer to the question *yIH nuq*? ("What is a tribble?") would 
> presumably be a
>
> definition or description of a tribble.  This being the case, then, the
>
> answer to the question *jarlIj qaq nuq*?  ("What is your preferable 
> month?") would presumably be a definition of "your favorite month." 
> But this is not what you want to find out by asking your question.  
> What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, 
> which one do you prefer?"
>
> The first word in your sentence, *jarlIj*, means "your month" (*jar 
> *"month," *-lIj *"your").  But given that what you're really asking is 
> "Which month do you prefer?" it's not really "your month" at all.  The 
> "you" should go with the verb, not with "month."
>
> Which brings us to the verb.  You use *qaq*, "be preferable," adjectivally
>
> (*jarlIj qaq *is "your preferable month").  I think what you mean is 
> better
>
> expressed by using the verb *maS *"prefer" with "you" as the subject: 
> *jar*
>
> *DamaS*"you prefer the month."  If you want to highlight the notion of
>
> "most prefer," you can use the emphatic suffix -*qu'*: *jar DamaSqu'* "you
>
> very much prefer the month."  (In this case, since "prefer" involves
>
> making a choice, the one chosen is automatically the one that is "most"
>
> preferred.)
>
> So what about the "what" (or "which") of your original question
>
> ("What/which is your favorite month?")?  When asking someone a question of
>
> this type, you are really asking him or her to make a choice.  So just be
>
> a Klingon and order them to do so: "Identify the month that you very 
> much prefer!":
>
> *jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu' *
>
> *DamaSqu'bogh *"that you very much prefer" (*DamaSqu' *"you very much 
> prefer
>
> it" plus -*bogh *"which," the relative-clause marker) modifies *jar 
> *"month"
>
> and the whole phrase *jar DamaSqu'bogh *"the month that you very much
>
> prefer" is the object of the verb *ngu'* ("identify"), which is 
> preceded by the imperative prefix *yI*- ("do something to it!").
>
> Given that there's an awful lot about Klingon grammar that's not yet 
> known, you did a good job coming up with the translations you came up 
> with.  I hope my explanations and clarifications make sense.
>
> ************************************************************************
>
> *On Behalf Of *SuStel
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:47 AM
>
> On 12/14/2016 11:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>
>     I'm just asking in order to make sure I understand this correctly.
>
>     lets say I want to ask "which ship arrived ?". both {paw'ta' Duj
>     nuq} and {paw'ta' nuq Duj} are wrong, right ?
>
> *paw,* not *paw'* (unless the arrival was very rough!).
>
> *nuq* goes into the place of the answer. If the answer isn't the same 
> sentence with a substitution for *nuq,* then the question is not 
> formed correctly.
>
> If the answer to the question is, for instance, that the /Enterprise/ 
> arrived, then the answer is *pawta' 'entepray'.* But this isn't in the 
> same form that you asked it, because it doesn't include the word 
> *Duj.* So the entire method of asking the question is doubtful.
>
> There /are/ some answers that would fit, like, say, *pawta' DIvI' 
> Duj.* But not every answer will fit, so you may not be able to ask 
> questions this way.
>
> In any case, we've never seen Okrand use *nuq* or *'Iv* in a noun-noun 
> construction like this, so whether or not this is allowed is unknown.
>
> The most common thing to do is turn it into a command to identify: 
> *paw'ta'bogh Duj yIngu'*/identify the ship that has arrived!/ If 
> you're not asking for a name, you might get more specific, like 
> *pawta'bogh Duj Sar yIngu'* /identify the type of ship that has arrived!/
>
> -- 
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
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-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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