[tlhIngan Hol] to qaStaHvIS or not to qaStaHvIS

[mayqel qunenoS]

I realize where my confusion lies..

I don't know the difference between a time span, and a time stamp. So far,
I believed that these two are the same.

So, what is the difference between them ? I know that a time span is a
period of time (2 seconds, 4 minutes, 6 hours, 7 days, 10 months, 12 years,
14 centuries, etc).

But what is a time stamp, and how is it any different from a time span ?

qunnoH jan puqloD
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'

On 28 Dec 2016 3:00 pm, "SuStel" <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:

> On 12/28/2016 6:34 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>
> When we say {DaSjaj mavum}, the {qaStaHvIS} is unnecessary. Why ? For
> two reasons: First, because there is no direct need to specify that
> during the entire day we will be working.
>
>
> *qaStaHvIS DaSjaj* *mavum* doesn't say you're working for an entire
> Monday. It says we work during Monday. We might work for one minute or one
> hour or eight hours or twenty-four hours.
>
> if we are answering to the question:
> "on monday do you want to grab a coffee?" then we can answer {ghobe',
> qaStaHvIS DaSjaj mavum}. It is not that the {ghobe', DaSjaj mavum} is
> wrong; it is only that it doesn't carry the punch of saying "no,
> during monday we work".
>
>
> *DaSjaj mavum* would be used to point to a calendar to show why we can't
> go for coffee that day. *qaStaHvIS DaSjaj mavum* would be used to set the
> context that Monday is ongoing, and then work happened.
>
> But when we say {qaStaHvIS wa'maH DIS maSuv} for "during ten years we
> are fighting", the {qaStaHvIS} is necessary because we obviously want
> to convey, that the event of "our fighting" takes place over the
> period of a large time span.
>
>
> No, the *qaStaHvIS* is necessary because *wa'maH DIS* is not a time stamp.
>
> Since we want to convey the "during"
> aspect, then obviously the {qaStaHvIS} is necessary. If we didn't use
> it, then perhaps the reader/listener could be left to wonder: "did
> they fight during the entire time-span ?".
>
>
> Without it the reader/listener would be left wondering what that *wa'maH
> DIS* was doing in the sentence. Is it an object? What's its grammatical
> role? *wa'maH DIS* does not mean *for ten years;* that *for* is the
> *qaStaHvIS.* w*a'maH DIS* means only *ten years.*
>
> Now, perhaps there is an additional reason.. if we just wrote: {wa'maH
> DIS maSuv}, then the feeling that I get from this sentence is that we
> have a {wa'maH DIS} which is very "independent/out of the
> blue/undetermined/undescribed". And perhaps, here is the problem with
> big periods of time requiring the {qaStaHvIS}; one can understand if
> we just say {po'}, {DaSjaj}. {DaSjaj, povjaj je}. These are small time
> spans.
>
>
> Your feeling is correct but it's not because of the size of the time span.
> It's because a time span is not a time stamp.
>
> And then we have the canon example of voragh:
> {qaStaHvIS wa' ram loS SaD Hugh SIjlaH qetbogh loD}
> 4,000 throats may be cut in one night by a running man
>
> Here the {qaStaHvIS} is essential in order to differentiate between an
> event happening "during a night", and an event happening "one night".
>
>
> Which works because *wa' jaj* *one day* works in the same way as it does
> in English: as a time stamp. We see this in the proverb *wa' jaj 'etlh
> 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD nen moj.* This is a time stamp.
> Don't think of *wa' jaj* as a time period, like *cha' jaj* or *wej jaj,*
> think of it as "one of those days I can point to on the calendar," or "this
> day, not that day."
>
> However, a final question comes to mind: "could we have it as rule,
> that when something happens during a small period of time then the
> {qaStaHvIS} is always unnecessary" ?
>
>
> No.
>
> --
> SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
>
>
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>
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