[tlhIngan Hol] ghorgh and nuqDaq next to nouns

[SuStel]

On 12/16/2016 9:00 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> but if I write something which doesn't violate a rule, why dismiss it 
> if okrand never used it ? who can argue that okrand has used every 
> possible combination in klingon, so that if what I write doesn't fall 
> into these combinations, then it is wrong ? 

There's not violating a rule, and then there's making up a new rule. 
You're trying to construct a sentence whose grammar doesn't follow from 
what we've been given, but which does mimic English grammar. This is a 
strong sign that you're trying to follow the rules of English to 
construct Klingon sentences.

If you try to make a sentence using a rule you made up, even one which 
doesn't seem to violate any of Okrand's rules, we're going to demand to 
see some justification. This is why I tell you, when you ask why can't 
we say **pawpu' nuq Duj*/what ship has arrived?/, that Okrand hasn't 
created a rule that says *nuq* acts like /which?,/ and he's never 
constructed a sentence that acted that way. Those are the two ways we 
learn the rules of Klingon: Okrand says "this is a rule," or we deduce 
the rules from Okrand's examples.

*nuq* goes in the place the answer would occupy. But if it's part of a 
noun-noun construction it the answer doesn't replace the entire 
noun-noun. If the answer were *pawpu' 'entepray',* what I've done is 
replace **nuq Duj**,* not just *nuq,* with the answer. And there's no 
rule that says we can do that or example of Okrand doing that.

Furthermore, Okrand /has/ given us question words next to nouns, but 
they mean something very different. *nuq* and *'Iv* work like pronouns, 
and you can say things like *nuq Duj**vetlh*/what is that ship?/ and 
*yaSvetlh 'Iv*/who is that officer?/

You originally asked,

    we said that we can't have {'Iv} and {nuq} as part of noun-noun
    constructions. but can we have the {ghorgh} and {nuqDaq} existing next
    to nouns ?

    for example can we say:

    {ghorgh DaSjaj mamej}
    when do we depart on monday ?

    {DaSjaj ghorgh mamej}
    on monday when do we depart

    {nuqDaq tera'Daq mIl'oDmey tu'lu'}
    where on earth someone finds bears ?

    {tera'Daq nuqDaq mIl'oDmey tu'lu'}
    on earth where someone finds bears ?

My answer is that in none of these sentences do we see question words as 
part of a noun-noun construction. In the first two we see an independent 
time expression*(DaSjaj)* and the question word *ghorgh* each standing 
alone. In the second two we see a locative noun *(tera'Daq)* and the 
question word *nuqDaq* each standing alone. There are no noun-noun 
constructions here.

-- 
SuStel
http://trimboli.name

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