[tlhIngan Hol] Thoughts on {-moH}

[Lieven]

I wrote:
 >     What do you think about:
 >     {torghvaD taj'e' matlh nobmoH Qugh}

Am 08.12.2016 um 13:49 schrieb terrence.donnelly:
> "So far as the knife is concerned, Kruge
> makes Torg give Maltz"?

SuStel wrote:
 > I don't see two objects. I see a beneficiary/indirect object (not an
 > object in the Klingon sentence position way), a topic (not an object),
 > and *matlh* (an object). I read this sentence as /as for knives, Kruge
 > makes Torg give Maltz/ (he is handing Maltz over).

I was pretty sure that this phrase was not so clearly correct an cause 
trouble.

Basically I was thinking of the english phrase:

"Kruge makes Maltz give Torg the knife"
Problem: "give torg"

Whats confusing is the order of the words, or the amount of objects

{matlh nobmoH Qugh} = "Kruge causes Maltz to give"
We all agree on that, right?

Question: what does maltz give? taj!

Let's tryx to throw in the question word in the existing sentence

{nuq matlh nobmoH Qugh} = "Kruge causes Maltz to give WHAT?"

Okay or not?? Where would be the better place for the word to stand? 
THat's why I say that nob has two objects: malt is caused to give, and 
the knife is the thing given (please no lesson about indirect or direct 
object now, stay on the topic [no pun intended])

Only few days ago, we found an example (I think from SuStel), telling us 
that the topicalized noun with {-'e'} may stand at different place than 
usual.
HaqwI''e' DaH yISam
-->
{taj'e' DaH yInob}

As for the knife, give it now.
-->
As for the knife, make maltz give it now.
taj'e', matlh nobmoH Qugh
= "As for the knife, Kruge causes Maltz to give"

Adding torghvaD just tell you to whom the knife is given:

taj'e', torghvaD matlh nobmoH Qugh
or
torghvaD taj'e'matlh nobmoH Qugh

= "As for the knife, Kruge causes Maltz to give for the benefit of Torg"

I still think it works, although I agree it looks very awkward.

-- 
Lieven L. Litaer
aka Quvar valer 'utlh
Grammarian of the KLI
http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
http://www.klingonwiki.net